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  • Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

    譯者: Crystal Tu 審譯者: Geoff Chen

  • I'm going to talk about the power of a word:

    我想談談一個字的力量

  • jihad.

    聖戰

  • To the vast majority of practicing Muslims,

    對大多數的穆斯林來說

  • jihad is an internal struggle for the faith.

    聖戰代表為了信仰的內在修煉

  • It is a struggle within, a struggle against vice, sin,

    在內心中的掙扎,與缺陷、罪惡

  • temptation, lust, greed.

    誘惑、慾望還有貪婪奮鬥

  • It is a struggle to try and live a life

    想盡辦法過著一個

  • that is set by the moral codes written in the Koran.

    依循可蘭經規範的生活

  • In that original idea, the concept of jihad is as important

    原先,聖戰之於穆斯林的重要性

  • to Muslims as the idea of grace is to Christians.

    大致如恩典之於基督徒

  • It's a very powerful word, jihad, if you look at it in that respect,

    聖戰是個極具力量的字眼,如果你對此抱持敬意

  • and there's a certain almost mystical resonance to it.

    你會發現它有著神秘的共振

  • And that's the reason why, for hundreds of years,

    而這也是為什麼數百年來

  • Muslims everywhere have named their children Jihad,

    各地的穆斯林以吉哈得 (Jihad) 為他們的孩子命名

  • their daughters as much as their sons, in the same way

    無論男孩女孩,就如同

  • that, say, Christians name their daughters Grace,

    基督徒將女兒取名為葛麗絲 (Grace)

  • and Hindus, my people, name our daughters Bhakti,

    和我一樣的印度教徒,將女兒取名為芭克蒂 (Bhakti)

  • which means, in Sanskrit, spiritual worship.

    也就是梵語中潛心信奉的意思

  • But there have always been, in Islam, a small group,

    但在伊斯蘭教中總有一小群人

  • a minority, who believe that jihad

    這群少數相信聖戰

  • is not only an internal struggle but also an external struggle

    不只是內在修煉,也是外在奮鬥

  • against forces that would threaten the faith, or the faithul.

    對抗威脅信仰及虔信者的事物

  • And some of these people believe that in that struggle,

    而這些人裡,有一部分人相信這種奮鬥

  • it is sometimes okay to take up arms.

    有時是可以使用武力的

  • And so the thousands of young Muslim men

    所以數以千計的年輕穆斯林男性

  • who flocked to Afghanistan in the 1980s

    在1980年代湧入阿富汗

  • to fight against the Soviet occupation of a Muslim country,

    為了抵抗蘇聯佔領穆斯林國家

  • in their minds they were fighting a jihad,

    在他們心中,這是一場聖戰

  • they were doing jihad,

    他們正在進行聖戰

  • and they named themselves the Mujahideen,

    所以他們自稱聖戰者 (Mujahideen)

  • which is a word that comes from the same root as jihad.

    字源和聖戰 (jihad) 一致

  • And we forget this now, but back then

    現在大多數人都忘記了,但那時候

  • the Mujahideen were celebrated in this country, in America.

    聖戰者在這個國家—也就是美國,為此慶祝

  • We thought of them as holy warriors who were taking

    我們認為他們是神聖的戰士

  • the good fight to the ungodly communists.

    與邪惡的共產主義對抗

  • America gave them weapons, gave them money,

    美國供給他們武器和資金

  • gave them support, encouragement.

    提供支援和鼓勵

  • But within that group, a tiny, smaller group,

    但在其中的一小群人

  • a minority within a minority within a minority,

    少數人中的極少數

  • were coming up with a new and dangerous

    想出了一個全新又危險的

  • conception of jihad,

    對於聖戰的定義

  • and in time this group would come to be led by Osama bin Laden,

    這個團體不久後由奧薩馬賓拉登領導

  • and he refined the idea.

    他重新定義聖戰

  • His idea of jihad was a global war of terror,

    在他的想法中,聖戰是全球恐怖戰爭

  • primarily targeted at the far enemy,

    針對遙遠的敵人

  • at the crusaders from the West, against America.

    西方來的十字軍,對抗美國

  • And the things he did in the pursuit of this jihad

    而他為追求聖戰所做的一切

  • were so horrendous, so monstrous,

    是如此駭人

  • and had such great impact,

    而影響深遠

  • that his definition was the one that stuck,

    使他的定義根深蒂固於西方

  • not just here in the West.

    以及世上其他地方

  • We didn't know any better. We didn't pause to ask.

    我們不知道到底是怎麼回事,也沒停下來思索

  • We just assumed that if this insane man and his psychopathic followers

    只是假設如果這個瘋子和他的病態追隨者們

  • were calling what they did jihad, then that's what jihad must mean.

    稱他們所做的事情為聖戰,那這就是聖戰了

  • But it wasn't just us. Even in the Muslim world,

    不是只有我們這麼想,在穆斯林世界裡

  • his definition of jihad began to gain acceptance.

    這個聖戰的意義逐漸為人所接受

  • A year ago I was in Tunis, and I met the imam

    一年前我在突尼斯遇見遇見一個

  • of a very small mosque, an old man.

    小清真寺的阿訇,一個老人

  • Fifteen years ago, he named his granddaughter Jihad,

    十五年前,他將自己的孫女命名為吉哈得 (Jihad)

  • after the old meaning. He hoped that a name like that

    以古老的定義命名,他希望這個名字能

  • would inspire her to live a spiritual life.

    激勵她追求精神生活

  • But he told me that after 9/11,

    但他告訴我,在九一一後

  • he began to have second thoughts.

    他的想法開始改變了

  • He worried that if he called her by that name,

    他很擔心,如果他以這個名字稱呼她

  • especially outdoors, outside in public,

    尤其是在戶外,在公共場合

  • he might be seen as endorsing bin Laden's idea of jihad.

    其他人可能會覺得他認同賓拉登的聖戰

  • On Fridays in his mosque, he gave sermons

    而他在週五清真寺的佈道中

  • trying to reclaim the meaning of the word,

    試著還原這個字眼的本來面貌

  • but his congregants, the people who came to his mosque,

    但聚會者,這些來清真寺的人們

  • they had seen the videos. They had seen pictures

    看過那些影像和照片

  • of the planes going into the towers, the towers coming down.

    飛機衝入大樓,然後大樓崩塌

  • They had heard bin Laden say that that was jihad,

    他們也聽到賓拉登稱這種舉動為聖戰

  • and claimed victory for it. And so the old imam worried

    而且自稱他們戰勝了。老阿訇很擔心

  • that his words were falling on deaf ears. No one was paying attention.

    人們聽不進他的話,沒有人在注意

  • He was wrong. Some people were paying attention,

    但他錯了,有些人在注意他

  • but for the wrong reasons.

    卻是基於錯誤的理由

  • The United States, at this point, was putting pressure

    在當時的美國,正在對

  • on all its Arab allies, including Tunisia,

    所有的阿拉伯盟友施壓,包括突尼西亞

  • to stamp out extremism in their societies,

    要他們把社會裡的極端份子揪出來

  • and this imam found himself suddenly in the crosshairs

    所以阿訇發現他已經成了

  • of the Tunisian intelligence service.

    突尼西亞情報局的目標

  • They had never paid him any attention before --

    他們從來未曾注意過阿訇

  • old man, small mosque --

    一個在小清真寺的老人

  • but now they began to pay visits,

    但他們開始時常來訪

  • and sometimes they would drag him in for questions,

    有時甚至會把他拖去問話

  • and always the same question:

    問題總是

  • "Why did you name your granddaughter Jihad?

    "你為何將自己的孫女命名為吉哈得"

  • Why do you keep using the word jihad in your Friday sermons?

    為什麼你在週五佈道中常常提到聖戰這個字眼

  • Do you hate Americans?

    你恨美國人嗎?

  • What is your connection to Osama bin Laden?"

    你和奧薩瑪賓拉登是什麼關係?

  • So to the Tunisian intelligence agency,

    對突尼西亞情報局

  • and organizations like it all over the Arab world,

    還有其他阿拉伯世界的類似組織來說

  • jihad equaled extremism,

    聖戰等同於極端主義

  • Bin Laden's definition had become institutionalized.

    賓拉登的定義已經約定俗成

  • That was the power of that word that he was able to do.

    那是他所能達成的,代表這個字眼的力量

  • And it filled this old imam, it filled him with great sadness.

    而使得老阿訇內心充滿悲傷

  • He told me that, of bin Laden's many crimes, this was,

    他告訴我,賓拉登所犯下的罪行中

  • in his mind, one that didn't get enough attention,

    他認為大家都忽略了這一點

  • that he took this word, this beautiful idea.

    他把這個字以及所代表的良善想法拿走了

  • He didn't so much appropriate it as kidnapped it

    他幾乎是綁架了它

  • and debased it and corrupted it

    貶低並且以訛傳訛

  • and turned it into something it was never meant to be,

    讓它轉變為原先並未指涉的事物

  • and then persuaded all of us that it always was

    並且說服所有人這一直都是

  • a global jihad.

    一場全球聖戰

  • But the good news is

    但好消息是

  • that the global jihad is almost over, as bin Laden defined it.

    依照賓拉登的定義,全球聖戰已經幾乎結束了

  • It was dying well before he did,

    在他發起前就已奄奄一息

  • and now it's on its last legs.

    而現在只是迴光返照

  • Opinion polls from all over the Muslim world show

    整個穆斯林世界的意見調查顯示

  • that there is very little interest among Muslims

    穆斯林間對於向

  • in a global holy war against the West,

    西方世界發起全球聖戰

  • against the far enemy.

    對抗遠方的敵人興趣缺缺

  • The supply of young men willing to fight and die for this cause is dwindling.

    願意為此戰鬥付出生命的年輕人不斷減少

  • The supply of moneyjust as important, more important perhaps

    也許更重要的是,資金援助

  • the supply of money to this activity is also dwindling.

    對於聖戰活動的資金援助也正在減少

  • The wealthy fanatics who were previously

    有錢的狂熱份子

  • sponsoring this kind of activity are now less generous.

    先前資助這種活動的金主,已經不再慷慨了

  • What does that mean for us in the West?

    這對我們西方人又意味著什麼呢?

  • Does it mean we can break out the champagne,

    這代表我們可以開香檳

  • wash our hands of it, disengage, sleep easy at night?

    金盆洗手,從中脫身然後高枕無憂了嗎?

  • No. Disengagement is not an option,

    不,撤出戰場是行不通的

  • because if you let local jihad survive,

    因為如果你允許區域聖戰存在的話

  • it becomes international jihad.

    總有一天這會變成全球聖戰

  • And so there's now a lot of different

    所以現在衍生出各種不同的

  • violent jihads all over the world.

    暴力聖戰,這個世界上到處都是

  • In Somalia, in Mali, in Nigeria,

    在索馬利亞、馬利、奈及利亞

  • in Iraq, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, there are groups that claim

    伊拉克、阿富汗還有巴基斯坦,都有組織聲稱

  • to be the inheritors of the legacy of Osama bin Laden.

    他們繼承了奧薩馬賓拉登的信念

  • They use his rhetoric.

    利用他的巧言

  • They even use the brand name he created for his jihad.

    甚至還借用他為聖戰所命的品牌

  • So there is now an al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb,

    所以現在伊斯蘭馬格里布(非洲西北部)有基地組織

  • there's an al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula,

    阿拉伯半島有基地組織

  • there is an al Qaeda in Mesopotamia.

    美索不達米亞也有基地組織

  • There are other groups -- in Nigeria, Boko Haram,

    類似團體,像在奈及利亞的博科聖地

  • in Somalia, al Shabaab -- and they all pay homage to Osama bin Laden.

    還有索馬利亞的青年黨,都尊崇奧薩馬賓拉登

  • But if you look closely,

    但如果你仔細觀察

  • they're not fighting a global jihad.

    他們並不是在打全球聖戰

  • They're fighting battles over much narrower issues.

    他們為更小的議題鬥爭

  • Usually it has to do with ethnicity or race or sectarianism,

    通常是和道德、種族、宗派

  • or it's a power struggle.

    或權力鬥爭有關

  • More often than not, it's a power struggle

    大多數是權力鬥爭

  • in one country, or even a small region within one country.

    在一個國家內,或是國內的一個小區域

  • Occasionally they will go across a border,

    有時他們會穿越國界

  • from Iraq to Syria, from Mali to Algeria,

    從伊拉克到敘利亞、或從馬利到阿爾及利亞

  • from Somalia to Kenya, but they're not fighting

    還有從索馬利亞到肯亞,但他們沒在打

  • a global jihad against some far enemy.

    全球聖戰,對抗遙遠的敵人

  • But that doesn't mean

    不過這並不表示

  • that we can relax.

    我們可以鬆懈下來

  • I was in Yemen recently, where -- it's the home

    我最近去了葉門,那裡是

  • of the last al Qaeda franchise

    最後一個基地衍生組織的根據地

  • that still aspires to attack America, attack the West.

    依然渴望攻擊美國和西方

  • It's old school al Qaeda.

    這是老派的基地組織

  • You may remember these guys.

    你搞不好還記得這些人

  • They are the ones who tried to send the underwear bomber here,

    他們就是試著寄內衣炸彈

  • and they were using the Internet to try and instigate

    還有用網路嘗試挑撥、煽動

  • violence among American Muslims.

    美國穆斯林行使暴力的那群人

  • But they have been distracted recently.

    但最近他們轉移目標了

  • Last year, they took control over a portion of southern Yemen,

    去年他們掌控了葉門南部的一部分

  • and ran it, Taliban-style.

    用神學士的方式治理

  • And then the Yemeni military got its act together,

    然後葉門軍方展開行動

  • and ordinary people rose up against these guys

    平民站出來反抗這些人

  • and drove them out, and since then, most of their activities,

    驅逐他們,從那以後大部分的活動

  • most of their attacks have been directed at Yemenis.

    還有大部分的攻擊都是針對葉門當地

  • So I think we've come to a point now where we can say

    所以我想我們已經到了可以說

  • that, just like all politics, all jihad is local.

    就像政治一樣,聖戰地區化

  • But that's still not reason for us to disengage,

    但我們並不能因此退出

  • because we've seen that movie before, in Afghanistan.

    因為我們看過這段情節,在阿富汗

  • When those Mujahideen defeated the Soviet Union,

    當聖戰士打敗蘇聯時

  • we disengaged.

    我們毫不在意

  • And even before the fizz had gone out of our celebratory champagne,

    甚至當我們的香檳氣泡還沒噴出來時

  • the Taliban had taken over in Kabul,

    神學士已經控制喀布爾了

  • and we said, "Local jihad, not our problem."

    我們說,這只是區域聖戰,與我們無關

  • And then the Taliban gave the keys of Kandahar

    而當神學士將坎大哈的鑰匙

  • to Osama bin Laden. He made it our problem.

    給了奧薩馬賓拉登時,他成了我們的問題

  • Local jihad, if you ignore it, becomes global jihad again.

    如果你忽略這些區域聖戰,它總有一天會擴大到全球

  • The good news is that it doesn't have to be.

    好消息是這是可以避免的

  • We know how to fight it now.

    我們已經知道怎樣對抗

  • We have the tools. We have the knowhow,

    有工具,也有相關知識

  • and we can take the lessons we've learned

    更從過去學到教訓

  • from the fight against global jihad, the victory against global jihad,

    從對抗全球聖戰,以及對抗的勝利中

  • and apply those to local jihad.

    知道如何在區域聖戰中應用

  • What are those lessons? We know who killed bin Laden:

    那些教訓是什麼呢?我們知道誰殺了賓拉登

  • SEAL Team Six.

    是海軍特戰開發小組

  • Do we know, do we understand, who killed bin Ladenism?

    但我們明白是誰殺了賓拉登主義嗎?

  • Who ended the global jihad?

    誰終結了全球聖戰?

  • There lie the answers to the solution to local jihad.

    解決區域聖戰的關鍵就藏在其中

  • Who killed bin Ladenism? Let's start with bin Laden himself.

    誰殺了賓拉登主義?首先得談談賓拉登其人

  • He probably thought 9/11 was his greatest achievement.

    他大概以為911是他最大的成就

  • In reality, it was the beginning of the end for him.

    實際上那是他走向敗亡的起點

  • He killed 3,000 innocent people, and that filled

    他殺了三千名無辜民眾,這使得

  • the Muslim world with horror and revulsion,

    穆斯林世界充滿恐懼與反感

  • and what that meant was that his idea of jihad

    這就表示他心中的聖戰

  • could never become mainstream.

    絕不會成為主流

  • He condemned himself to operating on the lunatic fringes

    他咎由自取,因為他驅使他族群中

  • of his own community.

    瘋狂的少數份子

  • 9/11 didn't empower him; it doomed him.

    911並未給他更多力量,反而使他毀滅

  • Who killed bin Ladenism? Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed it.

    誰殺了賓拉登主義?Abu Musab al-Zarqawi 殺的

  • He was the especially sadistic head of al Qaeda in Iraq

    他是伊拉克基地組織首領中最嗜血的一個

  • who sent hundreds of suicide bombers to attack

    他派出數以百計的自殺炸彈客

  • not Americans but Iraqis. Muslims. Sunni as well as Shiites.

    不只攻擊美國人,也攻擊伊拉克人 不論是遜尼還是什葉信徒

  • Any claim that al Qaeda had to being protectors of Islam

    聲稱基地組織是伊斯蘭的保護者

  • against the Western crusaders

    對抗西方十字軍的這種說法

  • was drowned in the blood of Iraqi Muslims.

    都淹沒在伊拉克穆斯林的血中

  • Who killed Osama bin Laden? The SEAL Team Six.

    誰殺了奧薩馬賓拉登?是海軍特戰開發小組

  • Who killed bin Ladenism? Al Jazeera did,

    誰殺了賓拉登主義?是半島電視台

  • Al Jazeera and half a dozen other satellite news stations in Arabic,

    半島電視台還有數個在阿拉伯地區的衛星電視台

  • because they circumvented the old, state-owned

    他們規避了舊有的國營電視台

  • television stations in a lot of these countries

    在大多數這些國家中

  • which were designed to keep information from people.

    國營電視台是設計來阻止人們得到資訊

  • Al Jazeera brought information to them, showed them

    半島電視台將訊息帶給民眾,讓他們看到

  • what was being said and done in the name of their religion,

    以他們的信仰為名,作出了什麼事情

  • exposed the hypocrisy of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda,

    揭發奧薩馬賓拉登和基地組織的偽善

  • and allowed them, gave them the information

    給他們資訊,使得

  • that allowed them to come to their own conclusions.

    他們能夠自行判斷

  • Who killed bin Ladenism? The Arab Spring did,

    誰殺了賓拉登主義?是阿拉伯之春

  • because it showed a way for young Muslims

    因為那讓年輕穆斯林知道,有方法可以

  • to bring about change

    改變現狀

  • in a manner that Osama bin Laden, with his

    以奧薩馬賓拉登有限的想像力

  • limited imagination, could never have conceived.

    絕對無法想到的方式改變

  • Who defeated the global jihad? The American military did,

    誰打敗了全球聖戰?是美國軍隊

  • the American soldiers did, with their allies,

    美國士兵和他們的盟軍

  • fighting in faraway battlefields.

    在遙遠的戰場作戰

  • And perhaps, a time will come when they get the rightful credit for it.

    也許假以時日他們將會得到應有的評價

  • So all these factors, and many more besides,

    所以這些因素,還有其他許多

  • we don't even fully understand some of them yet,

    我們甚至對部份因素還未完全了解

  • these came together

    當這些因素聚集時

  • to defeat a monstrosity as big as bin Ladenism,

    打敗像是賓拉登主義這樣的怪物

  • the global jihad, you needed this group effort.

    還有全球聖戰,需要這樣的集體合作

  • Now, not all of these things will work in local jihad.

    現在,不是所有這些都能用在區域聖戰上

  • The American military is not going to march into Nigeria

    美國軍隊無法進入奈及利亞

  • to take on Boko Haram,

    對抗博科聖地

  • and it's unlikely that SEAL Team Six will rappel

    海軍特戰開發小組也不大可能垂降到

  • into the homes of al Shabaab's leaders and take them out.

    青年黨首領的家中把他們揪出來

  • But many of these other factors that were in play

    但其他很多檯面上的因素

  • are now even stronger than before. Half the work is already done.

    已經比從前更有利,大半的工作已經完成

  • We don't have to reinvent the wheel.

    不需要推倒重來

  • The notion of violent jihad in which more Muslims are killed

    暴力聖戰的概念,也就是讓穆斯林死傷

  • than any other kind of people is already thoroughly discredited.

    遠超過其他所有人的,已經失去民心了

  • We don't have to go back to that.

    我們不用走回老路

  • Satellite television and the Internet are informing

    衛星電視和網路提供資訊

  • and empowering young Muslims in exciting new ways.

    用令人興奮的新方法給年輕穆斯林力量

  • And the Arab Spring has produced governments,

    而阿拉伯之春也產生了政府

  • many of them Islamist governments,

    很多是伊斯蘭政府

  • who know that, for their own self-preservation,

    他們明白,如果想保護自己

  • they need to take on the extremists in their midsts.

    他們得面對國內的極端份子

  • We don't need to persuade them, but we do need to help them,

    我們不用說服他們,但他們需要我們的協助

  • because they haven't really come to this place before.

    因為他們未從走到這一步

  • The good news, again, is that a lot of the things they need

    又一個好消息是,他們需要的這些事情裡

  • we already have, and we are very good at giving:

    很多是我們具備的,也知道如何給予:

  • economic assistance, not just money, but expertise,

    像經濟援助,不止是金錢,而是專業

  • technology, knowhow,

    技術與知識

  • private investment, fair terms of trade,

    私人投資、公平貿易

  • medicine, education, technical support for training

    醫藥、教育、技術支援訓練

  • for their police forces to become more effective,

    使警方能更有效率

  • for their anti-terror forces to become more efficient.

    也使他們的反恐武力更有效率

  • We've got plenty of these things.

    我們有很多類似這樣的東西

  • Some of the other things that they need

    而有些他們所需的

  • we're not very good at giving. Maybe nobody is.

    我們給不了,也許沒有人能給

  • Time, patience, subtlety, understanding --

    時間、耐心、靈活度以及理解

  • these are harder to give.

    這些是難以付出的

  • I live in New York now. Just this week,

    我現在住紐約,就在這週

  • posters have gone up in subway stations in New York

    紐約地鐵上貼著海報

  • that describe jihad as savage.

    說聖戰是野蠻的

  • But in all the many years that I have covered the Middle East,

    但從我在中東採訪的這麼多年來

  • I have never been as optimistic as I am today

    我從未像今日這樣樂觀

  • that the gap between the Muslim world and the West

    穆斯林世界和西方世界的差距

  • is narrowing fast,

    正在快速縮短

  • and one of the many reasons for my optimism

    而讓我感到樂觀的一個因素是

  • is that, because I know there are millions,

    我知道有上萬個

  • hundreds of millions of people, Muslims like that old imam

    成千上萬的人,像是突尼西亞老阿訇這樣的穆斯林

  • in Tunis, who are reclaiming this word

    正在收復聖戰這個字眼

  • and restoring to its original, beautiful purpose.

    並讓它恢復原有的良善意味

  • Bin Laden is dead. Bin Ladenism has been defeated.

    賓拉登已死,而他的想法也已落敗

  • His definition of jihad can now be expunged.

    抹殺他的聖戰定義

  • To that jihad we can say, "Goodbye. Good riddance."

    我們可以對那個聖戰說:再見,總算擺脫你了

  • To the real jihad we can say, "Welcome back. Good luck."

    而對真正的聖戰說:歡迎回來,祝您好運

  • Thank you. (Applause)

    謝謝

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

譯者: Crystal Tu 審譯者: Geoff Chen

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B2 US TED 聖戰 賓拉登 穆斯林 基地 對抗

【TED】鮑比-戈什。為什麼全球聖戰正在失敗(Bobby Ghosh:為什麼全球聖戰正在失敗? (【TED】Bobby Ghosh: Why global jihad is losing (Bobby Ghosh: Why global jihad is losing))

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    Zenn posted on 2021/01/14
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