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  • So this is a picture of my dad and me, at the beach in Far Rockaway,

    譯者: NAN-KUN WU 審譯者: Yi Fei

  • or actually Rockaway Park.

    這是一張我和我父親的合照

  • I'm the one with the blond hair.

    在Far Rockaway海灘上

  • My dad's the guy with the cigarette.

    那裡叫做Rockaway公園。

  • It was the 60's.

    我是金髮的那個。

  • A lot of people smoked back then.

    我父親是拿著香菸的那個。

  • In the summer of 2009, my dad was diagnosed with lung cancer.

    當時正值60年代, 那時候很多人抽煙。

  • Cancer is one of those things that actually touches everybody.

    2009年夏天,

  • If you're a man in the US,

    我父親被診斷出罹患肺癌。

  • you've got about a one in two chance

    癌症是是和人人都有關係的東西。

  • of being diagnosed with cancer during your lifetime.

    如果你是一個男性的美國人,

  • If you're a woman, you've got about a one in three chance

    你這一生將會有一半的機會被診斷出癌症。

  • of being diagnosed with cancer.

    你這一生將會有一半的機會被診斷出癌症。

  • Everybody knows somebody who's been diagnosed with cancer.

    如果你是女性,

  • Now, my dad's doing better today,

    你會有三分之一的機會被診斷出癌症。

  • and part of the reason for that is that he was able to participate in the trial

    每個人都會認識一些被診斷出癌症的人。

  • of an experimental new drug that happened to be specially formulated

    每個人都會認識一些被診斷出癌症的人。

  • and very good for his particular kind of cancer.

    好,我父親現在好多了。

  • There are over 200 kinds of cancer.

    有一部分的原因是他可以參與 一種實驗性新藥的測試

  • And what I want to talk about today

    有一部分的原因是他可以參與 一種實驗性新藥的測試。

  • is how we can help more people like my dad,

    有一部分的原因是他可以參與 一種實驗性新藥的測試。

  • because we have to change the way we think about raising money

    這種藥對於他所得的特定癌症非常有效。

  • to fund cancer research.

    這種藥對於他所得的特定癌症非常有效。

  • So a while after my dad was diagnosed,

    癌症有超過200種。

  • I was having coffee with my friend Andrew Lo.

    我今天所要說的是 我們如何能幫助更多像我父親一樣的人。

  • He's the head of the Laboratory for Financial Engineering at MIT,

    我今天所要說的是 我們如何能幫助更多像我父親一樣的人。

  • where I also have a position,

    因為我們必須要改變我們對於 癌症研究募款的想法。

  • and we were talking about cancer.

    因為我們必須要改變我們對於 癌症研究募款的想法。

  • And Andrew had been doing his own bits of research,

    我父親被診斷出後不久,

  • and one of the things that he had been told

    我和我的朋友Andrew Lo一起喝了杯咖啡。

  • and that he'd learned from studying the literature

    他是麻省理工學院財務工程實驗室的負責人

  • was that there's actually a big bottleneck.

    而我也是這個實驗室的其中一員。

  • It's very difficult to develop new drugs,

    我們談論著癌症,

  • and the reason it's difficult to develop new drugs

    Andrew也做了他的研究:

  • is because in the early stages of drug development,

    有人告訴他

  • the drugs are very risky, and they're very expensive.

    並且他也從閱讀文獻得知,

  • So Andrew asked me if I'd want to maybe work with him a bit,

    現在有個很大的瓶頸 --

  • work on some of the math and the analytics

    新藥很難研發出來,

  • and see if we could figure out something we could do.

    而此原因在於研發的早期階段

  • Now I'm not a scientist.

    而此原因在於研發的早期階段

  • You know, I don't know how to build a drug.

    研發的藥物風險很大,

  • And none of my coauthors, Andrew Lo or Jose-Maria Fernandez or David Fagnan --

    也很昂貴。

  • none of those guys are scientists either.

    所以Andrew問我是否有意願跟他合作,

  • We don't know the first thing about how to make a cancer drug.

    所以Andrew問我是否有意願跟他合作,

  • But we know a little bit about risk mitigation

    在數學以及分析上面著手

  • and a little bit about financial engineering,

    看看我們能否找到我們能改變什麼。

  • and so we started thinking, what could we do?

    我並不是一名科學家,

  • I'm going to tell you about some work

    所以,我並不了解怎麼做出一種藥。

  • we've been doing over the last couple years

    我的任何一位同事,Andrew Lo,

  • that we think could fundamentally change the way

    Jose Maria Fernandez,或是David Fagnan--

  • research for cancer and lots of other things gets done.

    沒有任何人--是科學家。

  • We want to let the research drive the funding,

    我們不知道製造癌症藥物的第一步是什麼,

  • not the other way around.

    但是我們知道些許和降低風險有關的事,

  • So in order to get started,

    還有一點點財務工程。

  • let me tell you how you get a drug financed.

    然後我們開始思考, 我們究竟能做些什麼?

  • Imagine that you're in your lab -- you're a scientist, you're not like me --

    我將告訴你們我們過去數年在做的事 --

  • and you've developed a new compound

    我將告訴你們我們過去數年在做的事 --

  • that you think might be therapeutic for somebody with cancer.

    我們相信這會在根本上 改變癌症研究以及很多其他事情的做法。

  • Well, what you do is, you test in animals, you test in test tubes,

    我們相信這會在根本上 改變癌症研究以及很多其他事情的做法。

  • but there's this notion of going from the bench to the bedside,

    我們想讓研究主導資金,

  • and in order to get from the bench, the lab, to the bedside, to the patients,

    而不是反過來。

  • you've got to get the drug tested.

    首先,讓我告訴你們如何幫一種藥籌措資金。

  • And the way the drug gets tested

    首先,讓我告訴你們如何幫一種藥籌措資金。

  • is through a series of, basically, experiments,

    想像你在一間實驗室裡--

  • through these large, they're called trials,

    跟我不一樣的是,你是一名科學家--

  • that they do to determine whether the drug is safe

    你是科學家,而你研發出了

  • and whether it works and all these things.

    一種你認為能夠治療癌症病患的新物質。

  • So the FDA has a very specific protocol.

    一種你認為能夠治療癌症病患的新物質。

  • In the first phase of this testing,

    嗯,你所要做的,就是在動物身上測試,

  • which is called testing for toxicity, it's called Phase I.

    在試管裡測試,

  • In the first phase, you give the drug to healthy people

    但是有個從實驗桌到臨床的概念:

  • and you see if it actually makes them sick.

    但是有個從實驗桌到臨床的概念:

  • In other words, are the side effects just so severe

    而為了從實驗桌、實驗室,到臨床、給病人使用,

  • that no matter how much good it does,

    而為了從實驗桌、實驗室,到臨床、給病人使用,

  • it's not going to be worth it?

    你必須要測試這種藥。

  • Does it cause heart attacks, kill people, liver failure?

    藥物測試基本上就是一系列的實驗。

  • And it turns out, that's a pretty high hurdle.

    藥物測試基本上就是一系列的實驗。

  • About a third of all drugs drop out at that point.

    透過這些被稱之為臨床證驗的大型實驗,

  • In the next phase, you test to see if the drug's effective,

    來決定這種藥是否安全或有效等等。

  • and you give it to people with cancer

    來決定這種藥是否安全或有效等等。

  • and you see if it makes them better.

    因此美國食品藥物管理局有一套特定的準則。

  • And that's also a higher hurdle. People drop out.

    在這個測試的第一階段,

  • And in the third phase, you test it on a very large sample,

    稱為毒性測試,

  • and you're trying to determine what the right dose is,

    叫做第一期。

  • is it better than what's available today? If not, then why build it?

    在第一期中,會給健康的人用這些藥,

  • When you're done with all that,

    看是否會讓他們不適。

  • what you have is a very small percentage of drugs

    換句話說,不論藥物帶來多少好處

  • that start the process actually come out the other side.

    副作用都可能讓這種藥物要失去它的價值。

  • So those blue bottles -- those blue bottles save lives,

    副作用都可能讓這種藥物要失去它的價值。

  • and they're also worth billions, sometimes billions a year.

    它會引發心臟病嗎?會致命嗎?

  • So now here's a question:

    會引發肝衰竭嗎?會引發類似問題嗎?

  • if I were to ask you, for example,

    事實證明,這是個頗高的障礙。

  • to make a one-time investment of, say, 200 million dollars

    大約有三分之一的藥跨不過這道障礙。

  • to buy one of those bottles,

    在下一期, 測試的是這種藥的效能。

  • so 200 million dollars up front, one time, to buy one of those bottles,

    你要做的是讓癌症病患使用這種藥,

  • I won't tell you which one it is,

    看是否能讓他們好些。

  • and in 10 years, I'll tell you whether you have one of the blue ones.

    這又是另一道更高的牆, 很多會被淘汰

  • Does that sound like a good deal for anybody?

    第三期你將會在很多的樣本上做測試,

  • No. No, right?

    目的是確認正確的劑量。 同時

  • And of course, it's a very, very risky trial position,

    同時確認它是否比現存的藥物好。

  • and that's why it's very hard to get funding,

    如果沒有,那為什麼要生產它呢?

  • but to a first approximation, that's actually the proposal.

    當這些事情都做完了以後,

  • You have to fund these things from the early stages on.

    只有一小部分的藥物能通過整個程序。

  • It takes a long time.

    只有一小部分的藥物能通過整個程序。

  • So Andrew said to me, he said,

    這些藍色小瓶子能夠救人一命

  • "What if we stop thinking about these as drugs?

    同時,它們價值數十億,

  • What if we start thinking about them as financial assets?"

    有時候一年就能賺進數十億。

  • They've got really weird payoff structures and all that,

    問題來了:

  • but let's throw everything we know about financial engineering at them.

    例如我問你是否願意做個一次性的投資,

  • Let's see if we can use all the tricks of the trade

    例如我問你是否願意做個一次性的投資,

  • to figure out how to make these drugs work as financial assets.

    例如說,兩億

  • Let's create a giant fund.

    來買這些瓶子的其中之一,

  • In finance, we know what to do with assets that are risky.

    先一次性的付兩億,

  • You put them in a portfolio and you try to smooth out the returns.

    來買某個瓶子,

  • So we did some math, and it turned out you could make this work,

    我不會告訴你你買的是哪一個--

  • but in order to make it work, you need about 80 to 150 drugs.

    十年之後,我再告訴你是哪一個。

  • Now the good news is, there's plenty of drugs

    對你們來說是筆好生意嗎?

  • that are waiting to be tested.

    不是。不是,對嗎?

  • We've been told that there's a backlog of about 20 years of drugs

    這當然是個風險非常、非常大的情況,

  • that are waiting to be tested but can't be funded.

    而這也就是為什麼融資如此困難。

  • In fact, that early stage of the funding process,

    但是大致上來說,

  • that Phase I and preclinical stuff,

    提案就是這樣子。

  • that's actually, in the industry, called the Valley of Death

    在一開始你就得為這些事情籌錢, 這會花很多時間。

  • because it's where drugs go to die.

    在一開始你就得為這些事情籌錢, 這會花很多時間。

  • It's very hard to for them to get through there,

    所以Andrew對我說:

  • and of course, if you can't get through there,

    「如果我們別把它們看作藥呢?

  • you can't get to the later stages.

    如果我們把他們當做資產呢?」

  • So we did this math, and we figured out, OK,

    它們有著很詭異的報酬結構,

  • well, you need about 80 to, say, 150, or something like that, drugs.

    但就把它們放進我們所知的財務工程裡吧!

  • And then we did a little more math, and we said, OK,

    但就把它們放進我們所知的財務工程裡吧!

  • well, that's a fund of about three to 15 billion dollars.

    來瞧瞧我們是否能用交易的把戲 來把這些藥物變成資產?

  • So we kind of created a new problem by solving the old one.

    來瞧瞧我們是否能用交易的把戲 來把這些藥物變成資產?

  • We got rid of the risk, but now we need a lot of capital,

    來瞧瞧我們是否能用交易的把戲 來把這些藥物變成資產?

  • and you can only get that kind of capital in the capital markets.

    讓我們創造一筆巨額資金,

  • Venture capitalists and philanthropies don't have it.

    在金融界,我們知道要如何處理高風險資產:

  • But we have to figure out how to get people in the capital markets,

    在金融界,我們知道要如何處理高風險資產:

  • who traditionally don't invest in this, to want to invest in this stuff.

    把他們當做投資組合,

  • So again, financial engineering was helpful here.

    然後試著讓所得趨於平緩。

  • Imagine the megafund starts empty,

    因此我們做了點運算,結果是可行的。

  • and what it does is it issues some debt and some equity,

    但是為了讓它可行,

  • and that generates cash flow.

    你需要80到150種藥。

  • That cash flow is used, then, to buy that big portfolio of drugs that you need,

    好消息是,有很多的藥正等著被測試。

  • and those drugs start working their way through that approval process,

    好消息是,有很多的藥正等著被測試。

  • and each time they go through a phase of approval,

    有人告訴我們有積壓了20年的藥等著被測試, 但是卻找不到資金。

  • they gain value.

    有人告訴我們有積壓了20年的藥等著被測試, 但是卻找不到資金。

  • Most of them don't make it, but a few of them do,

    有人告訴我們有累積了20年的藥等著被測試, 但是卻找不到資金。

  • and with the ones that gain value, you can sell some,

    事實上,融資的早期階段

  • and when you sell them,

    也就是第一期測試還有臨床前測試,

  • you have money to pay the interest on those bonds,

    在業界被稱之為死亡幽谷。

  • but also to fund the next round of trials.

    因為這是許多藥物的葬身之地。

  • It's almost self-funding.

    要跨過這道障礙非常困難,

  • You do that for the course of the transaction,

    當然,跨不過這道障礙也就無法前進到下一階段。

  • and when you're done, you liquidate the portfolio,

    我們做了運算,找出了,好

  • pay back the bonds, and you can give the equity holders a nice return.

    嗯,你知道的,你需要大約80到150種藥,

  • That was the theory, and we talked about it,

    嗯,你知道的,你需要大約80到150種藥,

  • we did a bunch of experiments,

    然後我們再做了其它運算,

  • and then we said, let's really try to test it.

    好,那大約需要30到150億的資金。

  • We spent the next two years doing research.

    好,那大約需要30到150億的資金。

  • We talked to hundreds of experts in drug financing and venture capital.

    所以我們為了解決舊的問題, 似乎製造了另外一個問題:

  • We talked to people who have developed drugs.

    所以我們為了解決舊的問題, 似乎製造了另外一個問題:

  • We talked to pharmaceutical companies.

    我們可以降低風險,但現在我們需要很大一筆資金。

  • We actually looked at the data for drugs,

    只有一個地方能拿的到那麼多資金,

  • over 2,000 drugs that had been approved or denied or withdrawn,

    就是資本市場。

  • and we also ran millions of simulations.

    風險投資者沒有那麼多錢, 慈善家沒那麼多錢,

  • And all that actually took a lot of time.

    但是我們得想出辦法讓平常不投資 這類玩意的人們進入資本市場,

  • But when we were done, we found something that was sort of surprising.

    但是我們得想出辦法讓平常不投資 這類玩意的人們並進入資本市場,

  • It was feasible to structure that fund

    並願意投資。

  • such that when you were done structuring it,

    財務工程又再度派上用場了。

  • you could actually produce low-risk bonds that would be attractive to bond holders,

    想像巨額資金從零開始,

  • that would give you yields of about five to eight percent,

    它發出了一些債務以及一些產權,

  • and you could produce equity

    它發出了一些債務以及一些產權,

  • that would give equity holders about a 12 percent return.

    而它們會讓現金流入。

  • Now those returns aren't going to be attractive to a venture capitalist.

    流入的現金會被用來購買你所需要的巨型投資組合,

  • They want to make those big bets

    流入的現金會被用來購買 你所需要的巨型投資組合,

  • and get those billion dollar payoffs.

    藥物也開始進行核准程序

  • But it turns out there are lots of other folks that would be interested.

    藥物也開始進行核准程序

  • That's right in the investment sweet spot of pension funds and 401(k) plans

    每次進到核准的下一階段,

  • and all this other stuff.

    藥物都會增值。

  • So we published some articles in the academic press,

    它們大部分撐不到最後,

  • in medical journals, in finance journals.

    但是有一些會,

  • But it wasn't until we actually got the popular press interested in this

    而你可以賣掉一些增值的藥物,

  • that we began to get some traction.

    你賣掉它們的同時,

  • We wanted to do more than just make people aware of it.

    就可以用這些錢來償還債券利息,

  • We wanted people to get involved.

    而且還有錢可以支付下一輪的試驗。

  • So we took all of our computer code and made that available online

    完全的自給自足。

  • under an open-source license to anybody that wanted it.

    你會在交易的過程中這麼做,

  • And you guys can download it today

    完成了之後你就可以清算這個投資組合,

  • if you want to run your own experiments to see if this would work.

    清償債券,而你可以

  • And that was really effective,

    給股東們一筆大回報。

  • because people that didn't believe our assumptions

    以上就是這個理論,我們為此進行過一些討論,

  • could try their own and see how it would work.

    我們做了一堆的實驗,

  • Now there's an obvious problem, which is,

    我們的結論是,實際測試看看吧。

  • is there enough money in the world to fund this?

    我們花了接下來的兩年做研究。

  • I've told you there's enough drugs, but is there enough money?

    我們和數百位藥物財務以及風險投資專家談過。

  • There's 100 trillion dollars of capital

    我們和數百位藥物財務以及風險投資專家談過。

  • currently invested in fixed-income securities.

    我們和藥物研發人員談過。

  • That's a hundred thousand billion.

    我們和藥廠談過。

  • There's plenty of money.

    我們親自看過藥物的資料,

  • (Laughter)

    超過2000種被核准、拒絕或中途退出的藥,

  • But we realized it's more than just money that's required.

    超過2000種被核准、拒絕或中途退出的藥,

  • We had to get people motivated, involved,

    我們也跑過數百萬次的模擬。

  • and get them to understand this.

    這些全都要花很多時間。

  • And we started thinking about all the different things that could go wrong.

    但當我們完成的時候,發現了相當令人驚訝的事。

  • What are all the challenges that might get in the way?

    如此建構資金是可行的 --

  • And we had a long list.

    當你完成建構的同時,

  • We assigned a bunch of people, including ourselves,

    你也就製造了會吸引持有人的低風險債券。

  • different pieces of this problem.

    你也就製造了會吸引持有人的低風險債券。

  • And we said, could you start a work stream on credit risk?

    你會得到5%到8%的收益,

  • Could you start a work stream on the regulatory aspects?

    你也會製造能夠給予股東大約12%回報的產權。

  • Could you start a work stream on how you would manage so many projects?

    你也會製造能夠給予股東大約12%回報的產權。

  • And we had all these experts get together and do these different work streams,

    這些回報不足以吸引風險投資人,

  • and then we held a conference.

    這些回報不足以吸引風險投資人,

  • The conference was held over this past summer.

    風險投資人喜歡砸重本來獲取數十億的利潤。

  • It was an invitation-only conference.

    風險投資人喜歡砸重本來獲取數十億的利潤。

  • It was sponsored by the American Cancer Society

    但事實證明,還是有很多人很有興趣,

  • and done in collaboration with the National Cancer Institute.

    這完全命中養老基金、401(k)退休福利計劃 還有其他東西的甜蜜點。

  • We had experts from every field we thought would be important,

    這完全命中養老基金、401(k)退休福利計劃 還有其他東西的甜蜜點。

  • including the government, and people that run research centers,

    這完全命中養老基金、401(k)退休福利計劃 還有其他東西的甜蜜點。

  • and for two days they heard the reports

    因此我們在學術媒體上發表了一些文章。

  • from those five work streams, and talked about it.

    我們在醫學期刊上發表了文章,

  • It was the first time the people who could make this happen

    在財金期刊上發表了文章,

  • sat across the table from each other and had these conversations.

    但是在大眾媒體感興趣之前 我們並沒有得到太多的關注。

  • Now these conferences, it's typical to have a dinner,

    但是在大眾媒體感興趣之前 我們並沒有得到太多的關注。

  • and at that dinner, you get to know each other,

    但是在大眾媒體感興趣之前 我們並沒有得到太多的關注。

  • sort of like what we're doing here.

    畢竟我們想要做的並不只是讓人們察覺到,

  • I happened to look out the window,

    我們想要人們參與其中。

  • and hand on my heart,

    我們所做的是,把所有的程式碼放到網路上,

  • on the night of this conference -- it was the summertime --

    我們所做的是,把所有的程式碼放到網路上,

  • and that's what I saw, a double rainbow.

    任何想要的人都擁有這個原始碼的使用權。

  • So I'd like to think it was a good sign.

    任何想要的人都擁有這個原始碼的使用權。

  • Since the conference, we've got people working between Paris and San Francisco,

    如果你想實驗看看這是否可行的話,

  • lots of different folks working on this

    你們今天就可以去下載。

  • to try to see if we can really make it happen.

    這真的很有效,因為不相信我們的假設的人

  • We're not looking to start a fund, but we want somebody else to do this.

    可以試試他們自己的假設是否可行。

  • Because, again, I'm not a scientist.

    可以試試他們自己的假設是否可行。

  • I can't build a drug.

    現在有個顯而易見的問題,

  • I'm never going to have enough money to fund even one of those trials.

    那就是全世界是否 有足夠的資金來支持這個玩意?

  • But all of us together, with our 401(k)s,

    我已經告訴你們有足夠的藥,

  • with our 529 plans, with our pension plans,

    但是有足夠的錢嗎?

  • all of us together can actually fund hundreds of trials

    有100兆的資本投資在固定收入證券上

  • and get paid well for doing it

    有100兆的資本投資在固定收入證券上

  • and save millions of lives like my dad.

    那可是十萬個十億啊,

  • Thank you.

    真多錢。

  • (Applause)

    (笑聲)

So this is a picture of my dad and me, at the beach in Far Rockaway,

譯者: NAN-KUN WU 審譯者: Yi Fei

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A2 US TED 藥物 癌症 測試 資金 風險

【TED】羅傑-斯坦恩。資助藥物研究的大膽新方式(羅傑-斯坦恩:資助藥物研究的大膽新方式)。 (【TED】Roger Stein: A bold new way to fund drug research (Roger Stein: A bold new way to fund drug research))

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    Zenn posted on 2021/01/14
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