What do you talk about with them?

瓊安布雷德：你是否有 各種政治傾向的朋友？

I'm a progressive; I live in a town full of progressives,

你和他們都談什麼？

and 15 years ago, I didn't have any conservative friends.

我是改革派；我住在都是 進步人士的小鎮中，

Now I have a wonderful mix of friends,

十五年前，我沒有 任何保守派的朋友。

and they include John.

現在，我有各種政治傾向的好朋友，

John Gable: I am not a progressive.

包括約翰在內。

I'm a Republican who grew up in a Republican family

約翰蓋博：我不是改革派。

in the conservative South,

我是共和黨，在共和黨家庭中長大，

and even worked in Republican politics, locally and at the national level.

我家在保守的南方，

But the last 24 years, I've been in technology

我甚至在共和黨政治圈工作， 地方性和全國性的層級都有。

and living in a very progressive area.

但，過去 24 年，我都在科技業，

So I have a lot of progressive friends,

且住在非常改革派的區域。

including Joan.

我有很多改革派的朋友，

JB: I was born in Berkeley, California,

包括瓊安。

a notoriously progressive college town.

瓊安：我在加州柏克萊出生，

And I live there now.

一個以改革派聞名的大學鎮。

In 1998, six months into the Monica Lewinsky-Clinton impeachment scandal,

我現在也住在那裡。

I helped cofound MoveOn.org with a one-sentence petition:

1998 年，萊文斯基醜聞過後半年，

"Congress must immediately censure the president

我協助共同創立了 MoveOn.org （走下去.org），請願只有一句話：

and move on to pressing issues facing the nation."

「國會必須要立即譴責總統，

Now, that was actually a very unifying petition in many ways.

然後就繼續走下去， 去處理國家面臨的迫切議題。」

You could love Clinton or hate Clinton

其實在許多層面上， 那是個很統一的請願。

and agree that the best thing for the country was to move on.

你也許愛柯林頓，也許恨柯林頓，

As the leader of MoveOn, I saw the polarization just continue.

但都能同意對國家 最好的做法就是走下去。

And I found myself wondering

身為 MoveOn 的領導人， 我看到兩極化仍然持續著。

why I saw things so differently

我發現，我很納悶，

than many people in other parts of the country.

為什麼我和美國其他地區的許多人，

So in 2005, when I had an opportunity to get together with grassroots leaders

在看事情的角度上有這麼大的不同？

across the political divide,

所以，2005 年，我有機會 跟一些跨政治分裂的

I grabbed it.

草根領導人聚會，

And I became friends with a lot of people

我抓住了機會。

I never had a chance to talk to before.

我和許多人成為朋友，

And that included leadership in the Christian Coalition,

我以前都沒機會和這些人說話。

often seen as on the right the way MoveOn is seen as on the left.

包括了美國基督徒聯盟的領導階層，

And this lead to me showing up on Capitol Hill

他們被視為右派， 而 MoveOn 被視為左派。

with one of the Christian Coalition leaders, my friend,

這導致我出現在國會山莊，

to lobby for net neutrality.

同行的是美國基督徒聯盟的 一位領導者，也是我的朋友，

That was powerful.

去遊說網路中立性。

We turned heads.

那很強大。

So this work was transformational for me.

我們引起了注意。

And I found myself wondering:

這份工作轉化了我。

How could vast numbers of people have the opportunity

我發現我在納悶：

to really connect with people that have very different views?

為什麼這麼多人有機會

JG: I was born Oneida, Tennessee,

可以真正和人連結， 卻有如此不同的觀點？

right across the state border from a small coal mining town,

約翰：我生在田納西的奧奈達，

Stearns, Kentucky.

橫越州邊界，來自一個煤礦小鎮，

And I lived there for the first few years of my life,

肯塔基的斯特恩斯。

before moving to another small town, Frankfort, Kentucky.

我人生中的前幾年住在那裡，

Basically, I grew up in small-town America,

接著搬到另一個小鎮， 肯塔基的法蘭克福。

conservative at its heart.

基本上，我在美國小鎮中長大，

Now, Stearns and Berkeley -- they're a little different.

從骨子裡就很保守。

(Laughter)

斯特恩斯和柏克萊－它們有點不同。

So in the '90s I moved out west to a progressive area

（笑聲）

to work in technology --

在九○年代，我搬出去， 到了西邊的改革派地區，

worked at Microsoft, worked at Netscape.

去科技業工作－

I actually became the product manager lead for Netscape Navigator,

在微軟工作，在網景工作。

the first popular web browser.

我真的當上了 「網景領航員」的產品經理，

Now in the early days of the internet,

那是第一個普及的網路瀏覽器。

we were just moved and inspired by a vision:

在網際網路的初期，

when we're connected to all these different people around the world

我們是被一個遠景給感動和鼓舞的：

and all these different ideas,

當我們能夠與全世界各種不同的人、

we'll be able to make great decisions,

不同的想法連結，

and we'll be able to appreciate each other

我們將能夠做出很好的決策，

for the beautiful diversity that the whole world has to offer.

我們將能夠欣賞彼此，

Now I also, 20 years ago, gave a speech

欣賞世界所帶給我們的美好多樣性。

saying it might not work out that way,

二十年前，我也做過一次演說，

that we might actually be trained to discriminate against each other

說將來可能不會是那樣的，

in new ways.

我們可能其實會被訓練成用新的方式

So what happened?

歧視彼此。

It's not like we just woke up one day and decided to hate each other more.

所以，發生了什麼事？

Here's what happened.

並不是我們有一天醒來 就決定要再多恨彼此一點。

There's just too much noise -- too many people, too many ideas --

發生的狀況是這樣的。

so we use technology to filter it out a little bit.

有太多噪音了－太多人、太多想法－

And what happens?

所以我們用科技來一點一點過濾。

It lets in ideas I already agree with.

接著發生什麼事？

It lets in the popular ideas,

我放行的是我已經認同的想法。

it lets in people just like me who think just like me.

普及的想法會被放行，

That sounds kind of good, right?

和我一樣的人，想法 和我一樣的人會被放行。

Well, not necessarily,

聽起來很好，對嗎？

because two very scary things happen

不見得，

when we have such narrow worldviews.

因為當我們的世界觀這麼狹窄時，

First, we become more extreme in our beliefs.

有兩件很可怕的事發生了。

Second, we become less tolerant of anybody who's different than we are.

第一，我們在信念上變得很極端。

Does this sound familiar?

第二，對於和我們不同的人， 我們的容忍度降低了。

Does this sound like modern America? The modern world?

聽起來很耳熟嗎？

Well, the good news is that technology is changing,

聽起來像是現代美國嗎？現代世界？

and it could change for the better.

好消息是，科技在改變，

And that's, in fact, why I started AllSides.com --

它能變得更好。

to create technologies and services to free us from these filter bubbles.

事實上，那就是為什麼我創造了 AllSides.com（所有各方.com），

The very first thing we did was create technology that identifies bias,

為了創造出能將我們從 過濾泡泡中解放的技術和服務。

so we could show different perspectives side by side

我們做的第一件事就是 創造出能辨別偏見的技術，

to free us from the filter bubbles of news media.

這樣我們才能把 不同的觀點一起呈現，

And then I met Joan.

讓我們脫離新聞媒體的過濾泡泡。

JB: So I met John outside of Washington, DC,

接著，我遇到了瓊安。

with an idealistic group of cross-partisan bridge builders,

瓊安：我在華盛頓 特區外認識了約翰，

and we wanted to re-weave the fabric of our communities.

還有一個理想主義團體， 成員都是在建立跨越黨派橋樑的人，

We believe that our differences can be a strength,

我們想要重建我們社群的結構。

that our values can be complimentary

我們相信，我們的歧見 可以成為優勢，

and that we have to overcome the fight

我們的價值觀可以是互補的，

so that we can honor everyone's values

且我們得要克服這鬥爭，

and not lose any of our own.

讓我們能夠尊重每個人的價值觀，

I went for this wonderful walk with John,

同時不失去自己的。

where I started learning about the work he was doing

我和約翰的對談非常美好，

to pierce the filter bubble.

談話中，我開始了解他做的工作，

It was powerful;

刺穿過濾泡泡。

it was brilliant.

那很強大；

Living in separate narratives is not good.

那很出色。

We can't even have a conversation or do collaborative problem-solving

住在不同的故事當中並非好事。

when we don't share the same facts.

當我們沒有共同的事實時， 我們甚至無法交談

JG: So one thing you take away from today

或是共同解決問題。

is if Joan Blades asks you to go on a walk,

約翰：所以，今天你們能學到的是，

go on that walk.

如果瓊安布雷德請你去散步，

(Laughter)

那就去散步。

It changed things. It really changed the way I was thinking about things.

（笑聲）

To free ourselves from the filter bubbles,

它會造成改變。 它真的改變了我對事物的看法。

we can't just think about information filter bubbles,

要讓我們脫離過濾泡泡，

but also relationship and social filter bubbles.

我們不能只想著資訊過濾泡泡，

You see, we human beings -- we're not nearly as smart as we think we are.

還要去想關係以及社交過濾泡泡。

We don't generally make decisions intellectually.

我們人類沒有自己想的那麼聰明。

We make them emotionally, intuitively,

我們通常不會做出明智的決策。

and then we use our big old brains

我們的決策是情緒的、直覺的，

to rationalize anything we want to rationalize.

然後再用又大又老的腦袋

We're not really like Vulcans like Mr. Spock,

來把我們想合理化的一切給合理化。

we're more like bold cowboys like Captain Kirk,

我們並不像瓦肯人，不像史巴克，

or passionate idealists like Dr. McCoy.

我們較像魯莽的牛仔，像柯克艦長，

OK, for those of y'all who prefer the new "Star Trek" crew,

或是熱情的理想主義者， 像老骨頭麥考伊。

here you go.

如果你們比較喜歡新的 《星艦迷航記》成員，

(Laughter)

那就給你們吧。

JB: Don't forget the strong women!

（笑聲）

JG: Come on, strong women. OK.

瓊安：別忘了堅強的女性們！

JB: All right.

約翰：來吧，堅強的女性。

John and I are both "Star Trek" fans.

瓊安：好。

What's not to love about a future with that kind of optimism?

約翰和我都是《星艦迷航記》迷。

JG: And having a good future in mind is a big deal -- very important.

有著那種樂觀主義的未來， 怎麼會不讓人喜歡？

And understanding what the problem is is very important.

約翰：心中有個美好的未來 是至關緊要的－非常重要。

But we have to do something.

了解問題是什麼，是非常重要的。

So what do we do?

但我們得要採取行動。

It's actually not that hard.

我們要怎麼做？

We have to add diversity to our lives --

其實沒有那麼難。

not just information, but relationship diversity.

我們得在我們的生活中加入多樣性－

And by diversity, I mean big "D" diversity,

不只是資訊，還有關係的多樣性。

not just racial and gender, which are very important,

我所指的多樣性是很廣泛的，

but also ...

種族和性別是很重要，但不只這些，

diversity of age, like young and old;

還有…

rural and urban;

年齡的多樣性，比如年輕及年邁、

liberal and conservative;

郊區及市區、

in the US, Democrat and Republican.

自由及保守，

Now, one of the great examples of somebody freeing themselves

還有在美國的民主黨及共和黨。

from their filter bubbles

有一個很棒的例子 可以說明人要如何脫離

and getting a more diverse life

他們的過濾泡泡，

is, once again, next to me -- Joan.

提高人生中的多樣性，

JB: So the question is:

這例子又是，我旁邊的瓊安。

Who among you has had relationships lost or harmed

瓊安：所以，問題是：

due to differences in politics, religion or whatever?

在座各位有誰遇過因為政治、宗教、

Raise your hands.

或其他歧見而造成關係斷絕或受損？

Yeah.

請舉手。

This year I have talked to so many people

好。

that have experienced that kind of loss.

今年，我和好多人談過，

I've seen tears well up in people's eyes as they talk about family members

他們都經歷過這種損失。

from whom they're estranged.

我見過人們在談他們疏遠的家人時

Living Room Conversations were designed

眼中泛著淚光。

to begin to heal political and personal differences.

「客廳對談」的設計目的

They're simple conversations

是要治癒政治和個人的歧見。

where two friends with different viewpoints each invite two friends

它們是很簡單的對談，

for structured conversation,

觀點不同的兩位朋友， 各自邀請兩位朋友，

where everyone's agreed to some simple ground rules:

來做結構性的對談，

curiosity, listening, respect, taking turns --

對談的每個人都要同意 遵守簡單的基本規則：

everything we learned in kindergarten, right?

好奇心、傾聽、尊重、輪流－

Really easy.

都是我們在幼稚園學到的，對吧？

So by the time you're talking about the topic you've agreed to talk about,

很簡單。

you actually have the sense that,

所以，當你在談論 你同意要談的話題時，

"You know, I kind of like this person,"

你其實會感覺到：

and you listen to each other differently.

「你知道嗎，我還算喜歡這個人。」

That's kind of a human condition;

且你會用不同的方式傾聽彼此。

we listen differently to people we care about.

那是一種人性，

And then there's reflection

我們會用不同方式傾聽我們在乎的人。

and possibly next steps.

接著會有反思，

This is a deep listening practice;

可能會有後續步驟。

it's never a debate.

這是深度傾聽的練習，

And that's incredibly powerful.

從來就不是辯論。

These conversations in our own living rooms

那是非常強大的。

with people who have different viewpoints

在我們自家客廳和不同觀點的人

are an incredible adventure.

所做的這些交談，

We rediscover that we can respect and even love people

是場非常棒的冒險。

that are different from us.

我們重新發現，我們能夠 尊重和我們不同的人，

And it's powerful.

甚至去愛他們。

JG: So, what are you curious about?

這很強大。

JB: What's the conversation you yearn to have?

約翰：所以，你對什麼感到好奇？

JG: Let's do this together.

瓊安：你渴望交談的是什麼？

Together.

約翰：咱們一起來這樣做。

JB: Yes.

同心協力。

(Laughter)

瓊安：是的。

(Applause)

（笑聲）

JB and JG: Thank you.

（掌聲）