the present perspective on the future

對於未來的年輕觀點，

and the future, mature perspective on the future --

對於未來的當前觀點，

I'd like to try and bring all those three tenses together

以及未來，對於未來的成熟觀點——

in one identity tonight.

今晚，我想要試著把 這三種時態結合在一起，

And you could say that the poet, in many ways,

成為一個身份。

looks at what I call "the conversational nature of reality."

你可以說，在許多方面，

And you ask yourself:

詩人所看的是我所謂的 「現實的交談本質」。

What is the conversational nature of reality?

你問自己：

The conversational nature of reality is the fact

現實的交談本質是什麼？

that whatever you desire of the world --

現實的交談本質是以下這個事實：

whatever you desire of your partner in a marriage or a love relationship,

不論你對這個世界有什麼渴望——

whatever you desire of your children,

不論你對婚姻或戀愛關係中的 另一半有什麼渴望，

whatever you desire of the people who work for you or with you,

不論你對孩子有什麼渴望，

or your world --

不論你對同事或下屬有什麼渴望，

will not happen exactly as you would like it to happen.

或你的世界——

But equally,

都不會準確地 以你所想要的方式發生。

whatever the world desires of us --

但很平等地，

whatever our partner, our child, our colleague,

不論世界對我們有什麼渴望——

our industry,

不論我們的另一半、孩子、同事、

our future demands of us,

產業、

will also not happen.

未來對我們有什麼渴望，

And what actually happens

也不會發生。

is this frontier between what you think is you

真正發生的是

and what you think is not you.

「你認為是的你」跟 「你認為不是你的你」

And this frontier of actual meeting

之間的邊界。

between what we call a self and what we call the world

我們所謂的自我、所謂的世界，

is the only place, actually, where things are real.

這兩者間實際相碰的邊界，

But it's quite astonishing,

唯有在這裡，事物東西才真實。

how little time we spend at this conversational frontier,

但，非常驚人的是，

and not abstracted away from it in one strategy or another.

我們花非常少的時間 在這個交談邊界上，

I was coming through immigration,

沒以任何策略來抽取些什麼。

which is quite a dramatic border at the moment,

我經過海關的移民局，

into the US last year,

那時是個相當戲劇性的邊境，

and, you know, you get off an international flight

我去年進入美國，

across the Atlantic,

下了國際航班，

and you're not in the best place;

越過了大西洋，

you're not at your most spiritually mature.

你不在最佳的地點，

You're quite impatient with the rest of humanity, in fact.

你不處於靈性最成熟的狀況，

So when you get up to immigration with your shirt collar out

事實上，你對其他的人很沒耐心。

and a day's growth of beard,

當你起身進到移民局時 上衣領子是外翻的，

and you have very little patience,

一天沒刮鬍子，

and the immigration officer looked at my passport

你很沒耐心，

and said, "What do you do, Mr. Whyte?"

而移民官看了我的護照，

I said, "I work with the conversational nature of reality."

說：「懷特先生，你是做什麼的？」

(Laughter)

我說：「我處理 『現實的交談本質』。」

And he leaned forward over his podium

（笑聲）

and he said, "I needed you last night."

他向前傾到他的矮牆上，

(Laughter)

他說：「我昨晚需要你。」

(Applause)

（笑聲）

And I said, "I'm sorry,

（掌聲）

my powers as a poet and philosopher only go so far.

我說：「很抱歉，

I'm not sure I can --"

身為詩人和哲學家， 我的力量只到這裡。

But before we knew it,

不確定我能——」

we were into a conversation about his marriage.

很快地，

Here he was in his uniform,

我們就在交談了，談他的結婚。

and the interesting thing was,

他穿著他的制服，

he was looking up and down the row of officers

有趣的是，

to make sure his supervisor didn't see

他不時看向著整排的人員，

that we was having a real conversation.

確定他的主管沒有發現

But all of us live at this conversational frontier

我們在做真正的交談。

with the future.

但我們所有人都生活在

I'd like to put you in the shoes of my Irish niece,

這個與未來的交談邊界上。

Marlene McCormack,

我想請各位站在我的 愛爾蘭姪女的立場想想，

standing on a cliff edge on the western coast of Spain,

她叫瑪琳馬可麥克，

overlooking the broad Atlantic.

站在西班牙西岸的懸崖邊緣，

Twenty-three years old, she's just walked 500 miles

眺望著廣大的大西洋。

from Saint Jean Pied de Port on the French side of the Pyrenees,

她 23 歲，剛走過了 500 英哩，

all the way across Northern Spain,

從位在庇里牛斯山 法國那一面的聖讓皮耶德波爾，

on this very famous, old and contemporary pilgrimage

一路走到西班牙北部，

called the Camino de Santiago de Compostela --

這是一趟非常著名、 古老、當代的朝聖之旅，

the Path to Santiago of Compostela.

西班牙文叫「Camino de Santiago de Compostela」，

And when you get to Santiago, actually,

「通往康波斯特拉的聖雅各之路」，

it can be something of an anticlimax,

當你到了聖雅各，

because there are 100,000 people living there

其實是有點掃興的，

who are not necessarily applauding you as you're coming into town.

因為有十萬人住在那裡，

(Laughter)

他們不見得會鼓掌歡迎你到鎮上。

And 10,000 of them are trying to sell you a memento of your journey.

（笑聲）

But you do have the possibility of going on for three more days

他們當中會有一萬人試著 賣這趟旅程的紀念品給你。

to this place where Marlene stood, called, in Spanish, Finisterre,

但，你確有可能可以再花三天時間

in English, Finisterre,

走到瑪琳站的這個地方，

from the Latin, meaning "the ends of the earth,"

西班牙文叫「Finisterre」，

the place where ground turns to ocean;

英文發音是「菲尼斯特雷」，

the place where your present turns into the future.

來自拉丁文，意思是「地球的盡頭」，

And Marlene had walked this way --

陸地轉變為海洋的地方，

she just graduated as a 23-year-old from the University of Sligo

你的現在轉變為未來的地方。

with a degree in Irish drama.

而瑪琳走過了這段路——

And she said to me, "I don't think the major corporations of the world

23 歲的她剛從斯萊戈大學畢業，

will be knocking on my door."

取得愛爾蘭戲劇學位。

I said, "Listen, I've worked in corporations all over the world

她對我說：「我不認為 世界上的主要企業

for decades;

會找上我的門來。」

a degree in drama is what would most prepare you for the adult --

我說：「聽著，數十年來 我為世界各地的企業工作；

(Laughter)

戲劇學位最能讓你 準備好進入成人的——

corporate world."

（笑聲）

(Applause)

企業世界。」

But she said, "I'm not interested in that, anyway.

（掌聲）

I don't want to teach drama, I want to become a dramatist.

但她說：「反正我對那也沒有興趣。

I want to write plays.

我不想要教戲劇， 我想要成為劇作家。

So I walked the Camino in order to give myself some courage,

我想要寫劇本。

in order to walk into my future."

所以我踏上聖雅各之路 想給自己一些勇氣，

And I said, "What was the most powerful moment you had on the whole Camino,

才能走入我的未來。」

the very most powerful moment?"

我說：「在聖雅各之路上，

She said, "I had many powerful moments,

你經歷到最強大的時刻是什麼？」

but you know, the most powerful moment was post-Camino,

她說：「有許多強大的時刻，

was the three days you go on from Santiago and come to this cliff edge.

但，最強大的時刻是在 走完聖雅各之路後，

And you go through three rituals.

是從聖雅各到那懸崖邊緣的那三天。

The first ritual is to eat a tapas plate of scallops" --

你要經過三個儀式。

or if you're vegetarian,

第一個儀式是要吃一小盤扇貝肉」；

to contemplate the scallop shell.

如果你吃素，

(Laughter)

凝視著扇貝殼就好。

Because the scallop shell has been the icon and badge of your walk,

（笑聲）

and every arrow that you have seen along that way

因為扇貝殼是你 這段步行的象徵和標記，

has been pointing underneath a scallop shell.

而你一路上所見到的每一個箭頭，

So really, this first ritual is saying:

都指向一個扇貝殼的下方。

How did you get to this place?

所以，其實第一個儀式在說的是：

How did you follow the path to get here?

你怎麼到達這個地方的？

How do you hold the conversation of life when you feel unbesieged,

你怎麼循著路到達這裡的？

when you're unbullied,

當你沒被圍困、沒被欺負，

when you're left to yourself?

獨自一人時，

How do you hold the conversation of life that brings you to this place?

你如何進行人生的談話？

And the second ritual is that you burn something that you've brought.

你如何進行帶你到此地的人生談話？

I said, "What did you burn, Marlene?"

而第二個儀式，是你要把 你帶來的某樣東西燒掉。

She said, "I burned a letter and two postcards."

我問：「瑪琳，你燒掉了什麼？」

I said, "Astonishing.

她說：「我燒掉了 一封信和兩張明信片。」

Twenty-three years old and you have paper.

我說：「好驚人。

I can't believe it."

23 歲的人會有紙。

(Laughter)

我無法置信。」

I'm sure there's a Camino app

（笑聲）

where you can just delete a traumatic text, you know?

我相信一定有聖雅各之路 app，

(Laughter)

讓你可以刪除創傷性文字，是吧？

It will engage the flashlight,

（笑聲）

imbue it with color

它會搭配閃光，

and disappear in a firework of flames.

充滿了顏色，

But you either bring a letter or you write one there,

在火焰的煙火當中消失。

and you burn it.

但你若沒有帶信到那裡， 你可以在那裡寫一封，

And of course we know intuitively what is on those letters and postcards.

然後燒掉它。

It's a form of affection and love that is now no longer extant, yeah?

當然，我們憑直覺都知道 信上和明信片上寫的是什麼。

And then the third ritual:

是一種現已不復存在的 愛與感情形式，對吧？

between all these fires are large piles of clothes.

接著，第三個儀式：

And you leave an item of clothing

在這些火當中的是大堆大堆的衣物。

that has helped you to get to this place.

你留下一個協助你到達

And I said to Marlene, "What did you leave at the cliff edge?"

這個地方的衣著物品。

She said, "I left my boots --

我對瑪琳說：「你在 懸崖邊緣留下了什麼？」

the very things that I walked in, actually.

她說：「我留下了我的靴子–

They were beautiful boots, I loved those boots,

就是我穿著走到那裡的靴子。

but they were finished after seven weeks of walking.

那雙靴子很漂亮，我很喜愛，

So I walked away in my trainers,

但經過七週的行走之後已經完了。

but I left my boots there."

所以我穿著運動鞋離開，

She said, "It was really incredible.

把靴子留在那裡。」

The most powerful moment was, the sun was going down,

她說：「那真的很難以置信。

but the full moon was coming up behind me.

最強大的時刻是太陽西下，

And the full moon was illuminated by the dying sun in such a powerful way

但滿月卻從我後面升起。

that even after the sun had dropped below the horizon,

而滿月被落日 用一種很強大的方式照亮，

the moon could still see that sun.

即使太陽已經落到地平線之下，

And I had a moon shadow,

月亮仍然能夠看見太陽。

and I was looking at my moon shadow walking across the Atlantic,

而我有個月影，

across this ocean.

我看著這個被月亮 照出的影子走過大西洋，

And I thought,

走過這海洋。

'Oh! That's my new self going into the future.'

我心想：

But suddenly I realized the sun was falling further.

『喔！那就是我的 新自我，走入未來。』

The moon was losing its reflection,

但，我突然發現太陽更下沈了。

and my shadow was disappearing.

月亮失去了它的反射，

The most powerful moment I had on the whole Camino

我的影子消失了。

was when I realized I myself had to walk across that unknown sea

這整段路上我經歷的最強大時刻，

into my future."

就是了解到我必須 自己走過那未知的海洋，

Well, I was so taken by this story,

走入我的未來。」

I wrote this piece for her.

我對這個故事非常著迷，

We were driving at the time;

我為她寫了這小品。

we got home, I sat on the couch,

當時我們在開車，

I wrote until two in the morning --

回到家，我坐在沙發上，

everyone had gone to bed --

一直寫到半夜兩點——

and I gave it to Marlene at breakfast time.

每個人都入睡了——

It's called, "Finisterre," for Marlene McCormack.

我在早餐的時候把它給了瑪琳。

"The road in the end

它叫做《菲尼斯特雷》， 獻給瑪琳馬可麥克。

the road in the end taking the path the sun had taken

「道路到了最終，

the road in the end taking the path the run had taken

道路到了最終， 走上太陽走過的途徑，

into the western sea

道路到了最終， 走上太陽走過的途徑，

the road in the end taking the path the sun had taken

進入西方的海洋，

into the western sea

道路到了最終， 走上太陽走過的途徑，

and the moon

進入西方的海洋，

the moon rising behind you

而月亮，

as you stood where ground turned to ocean:

月亮從你身後升起，

no way to your future now

當你站在陸地轉為海洋之處：

no way to your future now

現在沒有通往你未來的路，

except the way your shadow could take,

現在沒有通往你未來的路，

walking before you across water, going where shadows go,

除了你的影子能走上的路，

no way to make sense of a world that wouldn't let you pass

走在你前面，跨越水面， 去到影子所去之處，

except to call an end to the way you had come,

沒辦法將一個不讓你 通過的世界給合理化，

to take out each letter you had brought

除了宣稱你所走過的路到了盡頭，

and light their illumined corners;

拿出你帶來的所有信件，

and to read them as they drifted on the late western light;

點亮它們的照亮角落；

to empty your bags

閱讀漂流在夜晚西方光線中的它們；

to empty your bags;

清空你的袋子，

to sort this and to leave that

清空你的袋子；

to sort this and to leave that;

分類這，留下那，

to promise what you needed to promise all along

分類這，留下那；

to promise what you needed to promise all along,

承諾你打從開始就就需要承諾的，

and to abandon the shoes that brought you here

承諾你打從開始就就需要承諾的；

right at the water's edge,

丟棄帶你來這裡的鞋子，

not because you had given up

棄在水邊，

not because you had given up

不是因為你已經放棄，

but because now,

不是因為你已經放棄，

you would find a different way to tread,

而是因為現在，

and because, through it all,

你會找到一條不同的路來走，

part of you would still walk on,

也因為，透過它，

no matter how,

你的一部份將會繼續走下去，

over the waves."

不論如何，

"Finisterre."

走過波浪。」

For Marlene McCormack --

《菲尼斯特雷》

(Applause)

獻給瑪琳馬可麥克——

who has already had her third play performed

（掌聲）

in off-off-off-off-Broadway --

她已經有第三齣劇被演出，

in Dublin.

在外外外外百老匯的劇界，

(Laughter)

在都柏林。

But she's on her way.

（笑聲）

This is the last piece.

但她在向前進了。

This is about the supposed arrival at the sum of all of our endeavors.

這是最後一件作品，

In Santiago itself --

說的是在我們努力的頂點 應當的抵達。

it could be Santiago,

在聖雅各本身——

it could be Mecca,

可以是聖雅各，

it could be Varanasi,

可以是麥加，

it could be Kyoto,

可以是瓦拉納西，

it could be that threshold you've set for yourself,

可以是京都，

the disturbing approach to the consummation of all your goals.

可以是你為自己設定的門檻，

And one of the difficulties about walking into your life,

讓人不安的方法， 用來完成你所有目標。

about coming into this body,

要走入你的人生，要來到這身體內，

into this world fully,

完全進入這世界，

is you start to realize

困難點之一就是

that you have manufactured three abiding illusions

你開始了解到

that the rest of humanity has shared with you since the beginning of time.

你已經製造出了三個持久的幻覺，

And the first illusion is that you can somehow construct a life

打從一開始，其他的人類 就與你共享這些幻覺。

in which you are not vulnerable.

第一個幻覺就是你可以 以某種方式建立一個人生，

You can somehow be immune to all of the difficulties

且你身在其中不會脆弱。

and ill health and losses

你可以對所有的困難、 不健康、失去，

that humanity has been subject to since the beginning of time.

通通免疫，

If we look out at the natural world,

那些人類從一開始就遭受的。

there's no part of that world

如果你向外看看自然世界，

that doesn't go through cycles of, first, incipience,

那個世界的每一部份

or hiddenness,

都會要經過循環，

but then growth, fullness,

從最初的發端或隱蔽，

but then a beautiful, to begin with, disappearance,

接著成長、完全，

and then a very austere, full disappearance.

如何是美好消失的開始，

We look at that, we say, "That's beautiful,

然後是非常樸素、完整的消失。