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  • So, imagine that you take a 19-hour, very long drive

    譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Melody Tang

  • to Disney World,

    想像一下, 你開了 19 個小時的超長車程

  • with two kids in the back seat.

    去迪士尼樂園。

  • And 15 minutes into this 19-hour trip,

    你的兩個孩子坐在後座。

  • the immutable laws of nature dictate

    在這 19 小時車程 開始的 15 分鐘左右,

  • that you get the question:

    很自然地,

  • "Are we there yet?"

    你聽到孩子問:

  • (Laughter)

    「到了沒?」

  • So you answer this question a hundred more times, easily,

    (笑聲)

  • in the negative,

    你還要回答這個問題至少一百次,

  • but you finally arrive.

    且答案都是否定的。

  • You have a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful trip.

    你終於到了。

  • You drive 19 long hours back home.

    這個旅遊非常非常非常棒。

  • And when you get there,

    你再開了 19 小時的車回家。

  • the police are waiting on you.

    當你回到家,

  • They accuse you of committing a crime

    警察在等著你。

  • that occurred while you were away in Florida.

    他們指控你犯了一項罪行,

  • You tell anybody and everybody who will listen,

    案發時間是你遠在佛羅里達的時候。

  • "I didn't do it!

    你對所有肯聽的人說,

  • I couldn't have done it!

    「不是我做的!

  • I was hanging out with Mickey and Minnie and my kids!"

    不可能是我做的!

  • But no one believes you.

    我當時和米奇、米妮 及我的孩子在一起啊!」

  • Ultimately, you're arrested,

    但沒人相信你。

  • you're tried,

    最終,你被逮捕了,

  • you're convicted

    你受了審判,

  • and you are sentenced.

    你被定了罪,

  • And you spend 25 years in jail,

    然後你被判了刑。

  • until someone comes along and proves --

    你在牢裡待了 25 年,

  • has the evidence to prove --

    直到有人出現並證明——

  • that you actually were in Florida

    有證據可以證明——

  • when this crime was committed.

    其實當犯罪發生時,

  • So.

    你人在佛羅里達。

  • So, I'm a Harvard Law professor,

    各位,

  • and the last several years, I have worked on

    我是哈佛的法律教授,

  • winning the release of innocent people

    在過去幾年,我致力於

  • who've been wrongfully convicted --

    成功地釋放無辜的人,

  • people like Jonathan Fleming,

    他們被誤判而定罪——

  • who spent 24 years, eight months in jail

    像是強納森·佛萊明,

  • for a murder that was committed in Brooklyn, New York,

    他坐了 24 年又 8 個月的牢,

  • while he was in Disney World

    只因為一件在紐約 布魯克林犯下的謀殺案,

  • with his kids.

    而當時他與孩子在迪士尼樂園,

  • How do we know this?

    我們怎麼知道?

  • Because when he was arrested,

    因為當他被逮捕的時候,

  • among his property in his back pocket

    他後口袋裡的東西中,

  • was a receipt --

    有一張收據——

  • time-stamped receipt

    蓋有時間戳印的收據,

  • that showed that he was in Disney World.

    顯示他當時在迪士尼樂園。

  • That receipt was put in the police file,

    那張收據被放入警方的檔案中,

  • a copy of it was put in the prosecutor's file,

    一份複本被放在檢察官的檔案中,

  • and they never gave it to his public defender.

    但他們始終沒有將它 給予他的公設辯護人。

  • In fact, nobody even knew it was there.

    事實上,甚至沒人知道它存在。

  • It just sat there for 20-some-odd years.

    它就被放在那兒二十多年。

  • My team looked through the file, and we found it,

    我的團隊在檔案中尋找, 我們找到了它。

  • did the rest of the investigation,

    我們做了剩下的相關調查,

  • and figured out someone else committed the crime.

    認為是其他人犯下那個罪行。

  • Mr. Fleming was in Disney World,

    佛萊明先生那時確實在迪士尼樂園,

  • and he is now released.

    他現在已被釋放。

  • Let me give you a little bit of context.

    讓我為各位說明一下背景。

  • So about three years ago, I got a call from the Brooklyn District Attorney.

    約三年前,我接到一通來自 布魯克林區的地區檢察官的電話。

  • He asked whether I'd be interested in designing a program

    他問我是否有興趣設計一個專案,

  • called a "conviction review unit."

    叫做「定罪複審單位」。

  • So I said yes.

    我說好。

  • A conviction review unit is essentially a unit in a prosecutor's office

    定罪複審單位在本質上是 檢察官辦公室底下的一個單位,

  • where prosecutors look at their past cases

    在這個單位,檢察官會 審查他們過去的案件,

  • to determine whether or not they made mistakes.

    以判定他們當時是否犯了錯誤。

  • Over the course of the first year,

    在第一年,

  • we found about 13 wrongful convictions,

    我們找到了大約 13 件 誤判的案件,

  • people having been in jail for decades,

    這些被誤判的人 在監獄被關了數十年,

  • and we released all of them.

    我們把他們全釋放了。

  • It was the most in New York history.

    這是紐約史上的最高記錄。

  • The program is still going on,

    這個專案仍在運作,

  • and they're up to 21 releases now --

    目前已經協助釋放了 21 人——

  • 21 people who spent significant time behind bars.

    21 個人在牢裡蹲了相當長的時間。

  • So let me tell you about a couple other of the men and women

    讓我告訴各位另外兩件,

  • that I interacted with in the course of this program.

    與我參與專案過程中 互動過的當事人有關。

  • One name is Roger Logan.

    有一位的名字叫羅傑·羅根。

  • Mr. Logan had been in jail 17 years

    羅根先生那時已經坐了 17 年牢,

  • and wrote me a letter.

    他寫了封信給我。

  • It was a simple letter; it basically said,

    信寫得很簡單;基本上,他說:

  • "Professor Sullivan, I'm innocent. I've been framed.

    「蘇利文教授, 我是無辜的,我被陷害了。

  • Can you look at my case?"

    你能否看看我的案件?」

  • At first blush, the case seemed like it was open and shut,

    乍看之下,這個案件似乎沒有疑點。

  • but my research had shown

    但我做過的研究顯示,

  • that single-witness identification cases

    由單一證人指證的案件

  • are prone to error.

    誤判的可能性很大。

  • It doesn't mean he was innocent,

    這不表示他是無辜的,

  • it just means we ought to look a little bit closer at those cases.

    只表示我們應該要 更仔細一點看那類案件。

  • So we did.

    我們的確這樣做了。

  • And the facts were relatively simple.

    事實相當簡單。

  • The eyewitness said she heard a shot,

    目擊證人說她聽到槍聲,

  • and she ran to the next building and turned around and looked,

    她跑到隔壁大樓,轉過身一看,

  • and there was Mr. Logan.

    看到羅根先生。

  • And he was tried and convicted and in jail for 17-some-odd years.

    他被審判並定罪, 在監獄待了 17 年以上。

  • But it was a single-witness case, so we took a look at it.

    這是單一證人的案件, 所以我們仔細地去看。

  • I sent some people to the scene, and there was an inconsistency.

    我們派了一些人到現場, 發現了不一致的地方。

  • And to put it politely:

    用禮貌的說詞:

  • Usain Bolt couldn't have run from where she said she was

    烏珊柏特不可能從她聲稱的所在地

  • to the other spot.

    跑到另一點去。

  • Right?

    對嗎?

  • So we knew that wasn't true.

    所以我們知道那不是真的。

  • So it still didn't mean that he didn't do it,

    但這仍然不意味著他沒有犯案,

  • but we knew something was maybe fishy about this witness.

    但我們知道這個證人 有些可疑的地方。

  • So we looked through the file,

    所以我們仔細地看了檔案,

  • a piece of paper in the file had a number on it.

    在檔案中有一張紙,上面有個數字。

  • The number indicated that this witness had a record.

    這個數字顯示這個證人有記錄在案。

  • We went back through 20 years of non-digitized papers

    我們找遍了 20 年份且 沒有電子化的紙本資料,

  • to figure out what this record was about,

    想找出這個記錄的內容是什麼,

  • and it turned out -- it turned out --

    結果發現,結果發現,

  • the eyewitness was in jail

    當目擊證人說她看到那些事的時候,

  • when she said she saw what she saw.

    她其實在牢裡。

  • The man spent 17 years behind bars.

    這個男人坐了 17 年牢。

  • The last one is a case about two boys,

    最後一個案件與兩個男孩有關,

  • Willie Stuckey, David McCallum.

    威利史塔奇、大衛麥卡倫。

  • They were arrested at 15,

    他們 15 歲時被捕,

  • and their conviction was vacated 29 years later.

    他們的定罪在 29 年後被撤消。

  • Now this was a case,

    這個案件,

  • once again -- first blush, it looked open and shut.

    同樣地,乍看之下似乎簡單明白,

  • They had confessed.

    他們認罪了。

  • But my research showed that juvenile confessions

    但我的研究顯示,少年在自白時,

  • without a parent present

    若沒有父母陪同,

  • are prone to error.

    經常有錯誤。

  • The DNA cases proved this several times.

    許多案件以 DNA 證明了這一點。

  • So we took a close look.

    所以我們仔細去看。

  • We looked at the confession,

    我們看了自白,

  • and it turned out,

    結果發現,

  • there was something in the confession

    在自白中有些內容

  • that those boys could not have known.

    是那些男孩不可能知道的。

  • The only people who knew it were police and prosecutors.

    唯一知道的人是警察和檢察官。

  • We knew what really happened;

    我們知道真正發生了什麼事;

  • someone told them to say this.

    有人叫他們這樣說的。

  • We don't exactly know who,

    我們並不知道是誰,

  • which person did,

    是誰這麼做,

  • but any rate, the confession was coerced,

    但不論如何, 他們的自白都是被強迫的,

  • we determined.

    我們這樣判斷。

  • We then went back and did forensics

    我們接著回去做法醫鑒定,

  • and did a fulsome investigation

    我們做了全面調查,

  • and found that two other,

    發現有另外兩個人,

  • much older, different heights, different hairstyle,

    年齡他們大一些, 不同身高,不同髮型,

  • two other people committed the crime,

    這兩個人犯下了罪行,

  • not these two boys.

    而非那兩個男孩。

  • I actually went to court that day,

    我那天去了法庭一趟,

  • for what's called a "vacatur hearing,"

    去參加所謂的「撤消聽證會」,

  • where the conviction is thrown out.

    在那裡,這項定罪被否決。

  • I went to court; I wanted to see

    我去了法庭;我想要看看

  • Mr. McCallum walk out of there.

    麥卡倫先生走出那裡。

  • So I went to court,

    所以我去了法庭,

  • and the judge said something that judges say all the time,

    法官說了些法官總是會說的話,

  • but this took on a really special meaning.

    但這次的意義很特別。

  • He looked up after the arguments and said,

    在聽了辯論之後,法官抬起頭,說:

  • "Mr. McCallum,"

    「麥卡倫先生,」

  • he said five beautiful words:

    他說了五個美好的字:

  • "You are free to go."

    「你可以自由離開了。」 (註:英文原文是五個字)

  • Can you imagine?

    你們能想像嗎?

  • After just about 30 years:

    大約 30 年後,

  • "You are free to go."

    「你可以自由離開了。」

  • And he walked out of that courtroom.

    他走出了那間法庭。

  • Unfortunately, his codefendant, Mr. Stuckey,

    不幸的是, 他的共同被告,史塔奇先生,

  • didn't get the benefit of that.

    沒有得到這樣的好處。

  • You see, Mr. Stuckey died in prison

    史塔奇先生在獄中過世了,

  • at 34 years old,

    享年 34 歲。

  • and his mother sat at counsel table in his place.

    他的母親代替他坐在律師桌前。

  • I'll never forget this the rest of my life.

    我一生都不會忘記這一景。

  • She just rocked at the table, saying,

    她只是搖動著桌子,說:

  • "I knew my baby didn't do this.

    「我知道不是我的寶貝做的。

  • I knew my baby didn't do this."

    我知道不是我的寶貝做的。」

  • And her baby didn't do this.

    的確不是她的寶貝做的。

  • Two other guys did it.

    另外兩個人做的。

  • If there's anything that we've learned, anything that I've learned,

    如果我們有學到任何事, 如果我有學到任何事,

  • with this conviction integrity work,

    從這份確認定罪工作中學到的,

  • it's that justice doesn't happen.

    那就是:正義並不會自動發生。

  • People make justice happen.

    是「人」讓正義發生的。

  • Justice is not a thing that just descends from above

    正義不會自動從天而降,

  • and makes everything right.

    解決一切問題。

  • If it did, Mr. Stuckey wouldn't have died in prison.

    如果是這樣,史塔奇先生 就不會死在獄中了。

  • Justice is something

    正義,是有善意的人

  • that people of goodwill make happen.

    努力去讓它發生的。

  • Justice is a decision.

    正義是一個決定。

  • Justice is a decision.

    正義是一個決定。

  • We make justice happen.

    我們使正義發生。

  • You know, the scary thing is,

    可怕的是,

  • in each of these three cases I described,

    在我前述的三個案件中,

  • it would have only taken just an extra minute --

    都只需要多花一分鐘的時間,

  • an extra minute --

    多花一分鐘的時間,

  • for someone to look through the file

    只要有人去看過檔案,

  • and find this receipt.

    找到收據。

  • Just one -- to look through the file, find the receipt,

    只要一分鐘—— 去看過檔案,找到收據,

  • give it to the public defender.

    把它拿給公設辯護人。

  • It would have taken someone just a minute

    只要有個人願花一分鐘,

  • to look at the video confession and say, "That cannot be."

    去看自白影片, 並說:「不可能這樣。」

  • Just a minute.

    只要一分鐘。

  • And perhaps Mr. Stuckey would be alive today.

    也許史塔奇先生現在可能還活著。

  • It reminds me of one of my favorite poems.

    這讓我想起我最愛的詩之一。

  • It's a poem that Benjamin Elijah Mays would always recite,

    它是班傑明·以利亞·梅斯 經常背誦的一首詩。

  • and he called it "God's Minute."

    他稱之為「神的一分鐘。」

  • And it goes something like this:

    內容是像這樣的:

  • "I have only just a minute,

    「我只有一分鐘,

  • only 60 seconds in it,

    那分鐘裡只有六十秒,

  • forced upon me, can't refuse it,

    那是我被強迫給的,我無法拒絕它,

  • didn't seek it, didn't choose it.

    我沒有去尋求它、沒有選擇它。

  • But it's up to me to use it.

    但我可以決定怎麼用它。

  • I must suffer if I lose it, give account if I abuse it.

    如果我失去它,我得要受苦;

  • Just a tiny little minute,

    如果我濫用它,我必須要說明。

  • but eternity is in it."

    只是短短的一分鐘,

  • If I were to charge

    但永恆就在其中。」

  • each and every one of us,

    如果我要責令

  • I would want to say something like,

    我們每一個人,

  • "Every day,

    我會想說這樣的話:

  • every day,

    「每天,

  • take just one extra minute

    每天,

  • and do some justice.

    多花一分鐘的時間,

  • You don't have to --

    來伸張一些正義。

  • I mean, some people spend their careers and their lives,

    你並不需要——

  • like public defenders,

    像有些人投入他們的職涯以及一生,

  • doing justice every day.

    就像公設辯護人,

  • But in your professional lives, whatever you do,

    每天都在伸張正義。

  • take time out

    但在你的職業生活中, 不論是什麼職業,

  • to just

    暫停一下,

  • do some justice.

    就只要…

  • Make a colleague feel better.

    伸張一些正義。

  • If you hear something that's sexist,

    讓一個同事感覺好一點。

  • don't laugh, speak up.

    如果你聽到性別歧視的話語,

  • If someone is down, lift them up,

    別笑,說出來。

  • one extra minute each day,

    如果有人很消沉,協助他振作,

  • and it'll be a great, great place.

    一天花一分鐘就好,

  • I want to show you something.

    就能創造出一個很棒很棒的地方。

  • Now, above me is a picture

    我想讓各位看一樣東西。

  • of David McCallum.

    我上面這裡有一張照片,

  • This is the day he was released from prison.

    那是大衛·麥卡倫。

  • After 30 years, he got to hug a niece

    這是他被從監獄釋放的那一天。

  • he had never been able to touch before.

    30 年後,他得以擁抱他的姪女,

  • And I asked him then,

    他以前連碰觸到她的機會都沒有。

  • I said, "What's the first thing you want to do?"

    我那時問他:

  • And he said, "I just want to walk on the sidewalk

    「你想做的第一件事是什麼?」

  • without anybody telling me where to go."

    他說:「我只想在人行道上走走,

  • Wasn't bitter,

    而沒有人告訴我應該去哪裡。」

  • just wanted to walk on the sidewalk.

    他沒懷恨,

  • I spoke to Mr. McCallum about two weeks ago.

    只是想在人行道上走走。

  • I went to New York.

    大約兩週前我和麥卡倫先生談過話。

  • It was on the two-year anniversary

    我去了紐約。

  • of his release.

    那是他被釋放的

  • And we talked,

    兩週年紀念。

  • we laughed, we hugged, we cried.

    我們聊了,

  • And he's doing quite well.

    我們笑了,我們擁抱了,我們哭了。

  • And one of the things he said when we met with him

    他的狀況很好。

  • is that he now has dedicated his life

    見面時他說的其中一句話是:

  • and his career

    現在他已投入他的人生、

  • to ensuring that nobody else is locked up unjustly.

    及他的職涯,

  • Justice, my friends,

    來確保沒有其他人 會被不正義地關起來。

  • is a decision.

    各位朋友,正義

  • Thank you very much.

    是一個決定。

  • (Applause)

    非常謝謝。

So, imagine that you take a 19-hour, very long drive

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Melody Tang

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B1 US TED 正義 證人 先生 檔案 收據

【TED】羅納德-沙利文:我如何幫助無辜的人從監獄中解脫出來(我如何幫助無辜的人從監獄中解脫出來|羅納德-沙利文)。 (【TED】Ronald Sullivan: How I help free innocent people from prison (How I help free innocent people from prison | Ronald Sullivan))

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    Zenn posted on 2021/01/14
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