Name: 2018-03-27_彼得-約瑟夫和朋友們--可行的系統_多倫多_第四部分_QA。 (2018-03-27_Peter Joseph & Friends - The Viable System_Toronto_Part 4_ QA)
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Q: I wanted to ask you this. What was it that happened - it's not very clear, what this was ...

whether it was a conflict or disagreement that happened between the Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project,

轉承詞

because I remember watching that ... Jacque fresco, that he said he was ...

you guys had a disagreement, but he didn't say much else about that. Was it ...

PJ: I've always been hesitant to expand on that anymore than necessary, because it's petty - it was a kind of ...

After two years of working with the Venus Project and allocating tremendous resources and such to the Venus Project

they felt fearful of their identity and they felt like I personally,

who was their biggest advocate, who had brought them out and was their biggest fan obviously.

And they felt like I was interfering with some kind of identity that they had -

that I and in one level, that was my final insult, was that, I was trying to, you know, usurp Jacque.

Something like that. As an ego trip. And I couldn't tolerate that.

So in a personal level ... I will l never, you know, asked anybody to stop interaction with them.

In fact we have ... we still have partnership stuff that we do -

the linguistic team still works with the Venus Project and so on and so forth.

So, and I just stopped talking about it, because, okay ...

I don't want to put any more, do any more damage to any of this.

Venus Project has a think-tank type of structure. They're not a movement.

And that's great. And that's Jacque's work - that's Jacque's life's work.

The movement is a linear force trying to do everything possible with every bridge possible -

with any options we could find to make things happen for the better.

I mean obviously our goal - the Resource-Based Economic model - what defines that train of thought.

It's shared to a degree, but I could actually say, there are some differences the way,

I personally think and communicate in the way, Jacque thought and communicated,

But I don't want to go into that either, because it sound ...

it seems like people become competitive when you start talking like that and I hate that.

It is everything keeps changing and moving and I hope another organization comes

along that's even better than the Zeitgeist Movement, you know,

because there's always gonna be a time span for things.

It's been 10 years of this. And I'm not gonna be mad, If someone took all these ideas and made it better.

I would never be mad at that. I could sleep finally.

In your presentation you talked about the Mr. Beer, he was talking about the fifth system

and the gentleman, he was talking to, was about people, right?

So just the idea of the recurring system or recursive systém

and systems working within systems - in what way will people …

what role will people have with working in conjunction with that system?

PJ: That's a great point and you can read a whole book on it.

What I'd like to do now, is actually put in the context of what's going on right now in the 21st century,

because that was a long time ago - the way they are approaching, but basically decentralization -

something, that is of on everyone's tongue now, that's thinking, you know, forward.

Decentralization, where you have pockets of people, that are mostly independent -

remember the autonomy property, that I talked about -

and they are connected to other pockets at people,

they are autonomous to a certain degree, they manage their own work.

Instead of the consolidated energy grid that we have now, you know.

You have a decentralized energy grid, where people are actually producing

their own energy independently on their own structures, that they own, that their homes -

So they are in a sense their own singular systems semi autonomous.

They're still vulnerable to the environment and they're still connected to others,

because what are you do in that circumstance you connect

that viable system of that home producing that renewable energy.

Anything, that they you do in excess of their use,

goes back into a larger grid with all the other homes doing exactly the same thing.

Suddenly you don't have a centralized Energy Authority.

This has been talked about by a lot of people why. That's not my idea.

I think Jeremy Rifkin's talked about this of the the energy internet, he calls it.

It's very logical, eventually that's the way it's going to be. So that's a great example of it.

Did that answer your question you mentioned the top tier fifth thing?

Well think about the democratic sense, if you deciding to have your own energies off the grid,

so to speak energy world for your own work in your own home,

but you're also participating in the larger collective, so if I didn't ...

Think about mesh networks with cell phones in the internet.

So your phone can actually be changed and to be it a signal itself

and if everyone has a phone with the same signal going to each other's phones as a big network,

you could create a cell phone network without any controlled Authority.

You could create an internet structure without any control authority.

No one can flick a switch, no one can control it, no one can censor things.

I mean there's caveats, there's lots of things, that you could talk about technically, you know.

But that's the kind of thinking. So, if you bridge all that out, what you have our economic agents,

that are autonomous, we get, as pointed out in the model, they exist in environment,

where they're trying to, you know, bridge things together to respect that system unity

and they're autonomous at the same time and they regulate their own little world

while it works in that hierarchical levels of recursion they call it.

I'll leave it at that for now, because I can go on spiral of things,

but the idea of autonomous, collective autonomy, so to speak

where everyone's an individual agent just like your body, your liver and so -

as your liver respects the fact, that it's a part of your body,

it has its own self regulatory mechanisms along with it regulatory mechanisms your body.

And now one thing, I would add to that is, that when you have say your own home with that energy grid,

you're gonna have self-regulating mechanisms in that grid simultaneously, that you monitor.

So you're in control of that element of the of the whole node system.

Q: Okay. So this question is kind of two fold and if possible actually and … I'm sorry.

I didn't catch your name in the purple down there?

Q: Josephine, this might actually be best answered by you,

but I'll ask first ... about critical mass.

I wanted to talk about critical mass and how we bring about more wide sweeping changes,

because obviously, you know, we've got a very politically inert class, who is not interested,

they're not going to make implement changes legislatively. So, you know, strategies for sort of motivating that.

And the part, I wanted to ask you Josephine, was

you were out there talking about the basic income conference and how this is actually happening.

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2018-03-27_彼得-約瑟夫和朋友們--可行的系統_多倫多_第四部分_QA。 (2018-03-27_Peter Joseph & Friends - The Viable System_Toronto_Part 4_ QA)

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