Hello, this is 6 Minute English from BBC Learning English.

大家好，這是 BBC 六分鐘學英語。

I'm Sam.

我是 Sam。

And I'm Rob.

我是 Rob。

In this programme, we'll be talking about disagreeing.

在本集節目中，我們會談論意見分歧。

No, we won't!

不，我們不會。

I think we will, Rob.

我們會的，Rob。

We're discussing the following: Is it good to disagree?

我們會探討以下的主題：持反對意見是件好事嗎？

I know, but I feel better for having that little disagreement so that proves it is good to disagree!

我知道，但我覺得應該與你的意見分歧，證明持反對意見不是一件壞事。

Well, I hate to disagree, but I think we should explore this subject a little further first in the next six minutes.

我不喜歡意見分歧，但我認為在接下來的六分鐘，我們應該要更進一步探討這個主題。

Err, shouldn't that be five minutes?

呃，應該是五分鐘吧？

Rob, you are being pedantic—focusing too much on the small details or formal rules.

Rob，你太學究了，也就是過度注重小細節或正式的規則。

Maybe we should agree to disagree and move onto the quiz question I like to set every week.

或許你應該對於持反對意見表達同意，並前往每週都有的問題小測驗。

Yes, a good idea.

那是個好主意。

OK, so, do you know which spiritual leader is famous for saying "Disagreement is something normal"?

你知道「持異議是正常的」這句話出自於哪一位精神領袖嗎？

Is it a) Pope Francis, b) The Dalai Lama, or c) Ravi Shankar?

是 a) Pope Francis b) The Dalai Lama c) Ravi Shankar 中哪一位呢？

That's tricky, so I'll have a guess and say b) the Dalai Lama.

這題太難了，所以我要用猜的，我猜是 b) The Dalai Lama。

OK, I'll let you know if that was correct at the end of the program.

我會在節目的最後，讓你知道你的答案是否正確。

But whoever said "disagreement is something normal" is probably right.

但無論「持異議意見分歧是正常的」這句話是誰說的，我都覺得說得太對了。

I'm sure we all disagree with someone about something, don't we, Rob?

我確定大家都有過在某件事上與某人意見分歧，Rob，我說的對吧？

No! Haha, just joking!

不對，我是開玩笑的。

Of course disagreeing is normal.

意見分歧當然是正常的。

It would be boring if we agreed about everything.

如果我們對於每一件事看法都相同，該有多無聊。

However, I guess agreement, on some things, may have prevented a few wars.

但是我覺得在某些事上意見一致可以避免爭執。

Indeed, but it is a fascinating subject and it's something the BBC Radio 4 programme “A Guide to Disagreeing Better” looked at.

的確，這個主題很有趣，BBC 在電台節目 'A Guide to Disagreeing Better' 中也有所探討這個主題。

I think we should hear about how NOT to disagree first.

我們應該先從「不要」以何種方式否決開始。

This is couples' therapist, author, and speaker, Esther Perel, who knows a thing or two about that.

Esther Perel 是位感情治療師、作家和講者，她對於意見分歧略知一二。

In a battle, you position yourself in a hierarchy, one is on top of the other.

在一場爭執中，你將自己放置在分層制度中的最上層。

And then there is arguing that comes with a contempt in which it's not just that I don't accept your point of view, is that, I actually really think you're a lesser human being.

這場爭執會導致輕視，也就是不再只是不接受對方的觀點，而是認為對方是更低階的人。

Right, so Esther explains that bad disagreement is a battle—one person tries to take a higher position in the hierarchy.

沒錯，Esther 闡述了在一場爭執中糟糕的否決方式 －－ 其中一人試著使自己高人一等。

A hierarchy is a way of organising people according to their importance.

hierarchy 是指一種根據重要性將人分類的方式。

So, a disagreement doesn't go well if one person thinks they're more important than someone else.

當有人認為自己比他人來得重要時，就會使意見分歧的過程更加不愉快。

And according to Esther, things also don't go well if someone has contempt, which is a dislike or lack of respect for someone or something.

如 Esther 所說，當輕視的情況發生，也就是不喜歡或不尊重某人某事時，否決過程也會不順利。

And contempt in a bad disagreement can be more than just not liking somebody's point of view—their perspective on something.

在意見分歧中產生輕視，不僅是不喜歡他人的觀點。

It could be thinking someone is a lesser human being.

很可能會造成貶低他人的情況發生。

Ouch! That's not nice.

這樣不太好。

Let's think more now about good disagreement.

我們現在來了解如何以好的方式來表達異議吧！

The BBC podcast "Seriously" has listed some tips for disagreeing better, including not aiming for the middle ground, another way of saying "compromising."

在 BBC 廣播節目 'Seriously' 中有提及持異議的好方式，包含不要只為了達到中間立場，也就是妥協。

It also suggests speaking truthfully, listening intently—that means giving all your attention to what's being said and aiming for empathy.

說話要誠實且要專注地聆聽，全神貫注聽別人說了什麼，目的是為了產生共鳴。

But not feeling at the end of a disagreement that you have to agree!

但千萬不要認為你最後一定要同意他人的看法。

I agree and I'm sure former British politician, Douglas Alexander, would too.

我同意你的說法，且我相信前英國政客 Douglas Alexander 會做一樣的事。

He presented the programme "A Guide to Disagreeing Better" and explained why he thought disagreeing is a good thing.

他在節目 'A Guide to Disagreeing Better' 中現身並解釋他認為持異議是一件好事的原因。

A couple of decades I spent as an elected politician convinced me that disagreement is necessary if society is to progress.

身為當選幾十年的政客，我相信如果社會要進步，持異議是必須的。

And a society that values civility over justice and truth would simply be a recipe for stagnation.

一個重視客套勝過於正義和事實的社會將會停滯不前。

But honest conversations involve listening intently as well as speaking truthfully.

真誠的對談要專注地聆聽和誠實地訴說。

The thoughts of Douglas Alexander there, who, through his work as a politician, is convinced that disagreement is a good thing.

身為一位政客， Douglas Alexander 相信持異議是件好事。

He says we shouldn't just follow the values of civility - that means polite behaviour.

他認為我們不應該只遵循禮貌，也就是客套的行為。

It's important to challenge and question thoughts and ideas not just be polite and accept them!

討戰並質疑想法和意見是一件很重要的事，不要只是客氣地一概接受。

Yes, and if we don't challenge things and search for truth and justice, he feels it would lead to stagnation - staying the same and not developing.

沒錯，如果我們不質疑並尋求事實與正義，有可能會導致停滯，也就是維持現狀不再進步。

The verb form is 'to stagnate'.

Stagnation 的動詞形為 'to stagnate'。

But, he does say that when we discuss things and disagree we must be honest, listen to the other person intently, and speak truthfully.

Douglas Alexander 說當我們討論事情並產生異議時必須要真誠，專注聆聽他人所說並誠實地表達。

But I would add that this should be done politely and with respect.

我要補充說明，持異議必須要有禮貌且尊重他人。

Well, Sam, I've been listening to you intently, and if I'm honest, I think it's about time you gave me the answer to today's question.

那麼 Sam，我一直很專注在聽你說話，老實說，我認為你應該要給我今天問題的答案了。

We can agree on that, Rob!

我們想法一致！

So, earlier I asked you if you knew which spiritual leader is famous for saying "Disagreement is something normal".

節目一開始我問你是否知道「與他人意見分歧是正常的」這句話出自於哪一位精神領袖。

Is it a) Pope Francis, b) The Dalai Lama, or c) Ravi Shankar.

是 a) Pope Francis b) The Dalai Lama c) Ravi Shankar 中哪一位呢？

And, Rob, what did you say?

你的答案是哪一個呢？

I said it's b) The Dalai Lama.

我說是 b) The Dalai Lama。

And you were right, well done!

你答對了，真棒！

Now, if you'll agree, could we recap some of the vocabulary we've discussed in this program?

如果你沒有異議，我們可以重述今天在節目中討論的單字嗎？

Of course.

當然。

First of all, I was accused of being pedantic—focusing too much on the small details or formal rules.

一開始我被指控太過於 pedantic（學究的），也就是過度注重小細節或正式的規則。

Then we mentioned hierarchy - this is a way of organising people according to their importance.

接著是 hierarchy，一種根據重要性將人分類的方式。

Contempt is a dislike or lack of respect for something or someone.

Contempt 是指不喜歡或不尊重某人或某事。

A point of view describes someone's perspective on something.

A point of view 意指某人對某事的觀點。

Your point of view might be different from my point of view.

你的觀點可能跟我的不同。

Indeed.

沒錯。

And we also mentioned civility, which means polite behaviour.

我們也提及 civility，意思為有禮貌的行為。

And stagnation means staying the same and not developing.

然後 stagnation 意思為維持現狀不再進步。

Would you agree, Sam?

Sam，你同意嗎？

You are right, Rob, and that brings us to the end of our discussion about disagreeing!

你說的沒錯，今天有關意見分歧的討論到此為止！

Don't forget you can find lots more learning English materials on our website at bbclearningenglish.coｍ, on social media and on our app.

記得可以在網站、社交媒體或 app 上尋找更多與 BBC 相關的英語學習資源。

Please join us again next time.

下一次要再收看喔！

Bye bye.

再見。

Goodbye!

再見！