-Thank you for having me. -Uh, thank you for writing

what is one of the most interesting books I've read

on feminism in a very long time.

Hood Feminism is a really interesting title,

'cause some p-people might be like,

"Is there a different type of feminism in the hood

that we-we don't know about?"

I think that there is.

I would... I would argue that feminism in the hood

is really about survival and less about becoming CEO

and more about becoming, you know,

a person who can afford to keep your house,

stay home for two weeks during coronavirus

-and generally feed your kids through that process. -Right.

It's i... it's interesting that you say that,

because many people have said that the term "feminism" itself

is starting to lose its-its, uh, I guess its power

because everyone has a different definition of what it means.

Uh, you know, some have accused

certain waves of the feminist movement

of leaving black women behind.

Some people have said that feminism itself,

mainstream feminism doesn't think

about all of the additional factors

facing certain people.

What do you think needs to improve?

What is hood feminism

if you think about applying it to everybody?

I think about it this way. If we made sure

that everyone who is currently on the margins

is centered in our work,

and we make sure that they've got housing...

Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?

Housing, food, health care.

Um, we make sure that people have access

-to education and opportunity. -Mm-hmm.

It's a better world for everyone, right?

So, your answer for, "We want to reduce crime"?

Well, make sure people don't have a reason to be criminals.

-Right. -We want to reduce the spread of the coronavirus.

Make sure people can stay home for two weeks

-and be paid a living wage. -Right.

And be able to access groceries

and medical care and all of these things.

Like, every answer basically boils down to,

"If we're gonna do feminism for all women,

"we have to make sure that the poorest women

have everything they need to survive."

You can't fight for your rights if you c-can barely stay alive.

It's interesting that you-you bring that up in the book

in a completely different way,

because you talk about it from a personal perspective.

-Mm-hmm. -You know, you talk about it as it...

as it... as it affects people today.

How did your life define how you think about feminism?

So, I was raised by my grandmother.

And I was one of those kids

who we would now casually say was at risk, right?

And it was fine.

I-I didn't, you know, go to jail or any of those things,

but I married a guy who was not great.

-Right. -And then I got a divorce.

And one of the fun things about getting a divorce

when you've left an abusive relationship

and you don't have any money as a single parent

is that you find out really quick whether or not

-you have a safety net. Right? -Wow.

So, I lived in the projects.

I went to college. I was-- I'm a U.S. vet.

-Mm-hmm. -So, I went to college

while living in the projects and raising my son.

My ex-husband didn't pay child support,

yada yada, so there was food stamps

and Medicaid and all of those things.

I was one of those people we always see talked about as,

you know, someone who's siphoning from the system.

-Right. -Except I had paid into the system,

I got help from the system, and, I promise you,

I pay more in taxes now than I ever got.

That's a great-- I mean, that's a great success story.

It's wonderful that you-you came from that place to this place,

but it's also interesting that you-you don't stop looking back

and going, like, "I'm lucky."

Because I-- Here's the thing.

If you say, "Well, I made it out.

"N-- It's just me.

-Everybody else has to make it, too," -Mm-hmm.

you sort of ignore the people who A) who helped you

-make it out and B) you just keep the problem going. -Right.

There is always another girl like me.

There is always another parent like me.

There's also another person who is struggling.

And we honestly do ourselves no favors

when we don't take care of people who need a handout.

Right? And it really is.

We love a bootstrap in America. Bootstraps are stupid.

No one can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Right? That's never happened.

I want you to grab your shoelace and try and pull yourself up.

And then you end up breaking your shoelace. You get nowhere.

So, what-what people do get help from, right,

is lift as we climb.

Reach back and help someone, and the next one--

"Each one teach one" is another saying that--

from, like, the '80s. I don't know if it's still a thing.

But as you move forward and bring people with you,

everything gets better.

How does this apply specifically to feminism though?

'Cause someone might read this book and say,

"Well, Mikki, everything you're saying here

just seems like a-a progressive platform."

You know, health care and-and job opportunities

and-and, you know, paid maternity leave, et cetera,

how are these things specifically aimed at feminism?

Why do you think we have to think of those policies or ideas

specifically through a feminist lens?

Because if we're gonna write policy that says--

if we're gonna look at a movement that says

it's for all women but that movement's work only focuses

on a particular group of women and ignores everyone else--

Well, fun fact, you may have noticed that,

this last election cycle,

we had a 53% number 'cause we hadn't talked

about race and class and women.

Right? White women will vote based on race

more than they will vote based on gender.

Shout-out to Elizabeth Warren, who just learned that lesson.

So, therefore, when we talk about feminism

and-and we talk about women, we have to talk about all women.

And issues that affect all women,

not just issues that affect some women, should be the focus.

I'm never gonna be a CEO.

Well, I guess I could be if I really tried.

I can do anything I want, but--

I like how quickly you changed your perspective on life.

(laughs) I thought about it.

And, you heard, like, the two voice--

"I'm never gonna be-- I can do it."

I mean, I think I can do anything if I put my mind to it.

-Right. -But, I do also recognize

there's what, 100 or 300 women CEOs in America

-at any given point, right? -Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

How many CEOs do we need, versus how many nurses,

-teachers, doctors... -Right.

-moms, all of these things? -So--

So, do you think then, eh... you know,

because when I read through the book,

what was interesting as an argument and...

an idea was that a lot feminism seems to have been focused

around, like, powerful positions only.

You know, people have gone, like, "We need more women CEOs,

"we need more women in power, we need more women in r-ruling,

and doing this--" which we do need,

but in addition to that, you argue that

many waves of feminism have left out just women in general

and what they need to just survive.

Yes, because when we look at the world,

right, most women-- we're 51% of the world's population.

We're around that percentage for the U.S.

How many... are the 99%,

and how many are the one percent?

How many women are going to be living at,

-or below the poverty line? -Mm-hmm.

Even if you're "middle class," and you're making, let's say,

$50,000 a year-- I think the late, the latest round of math

for New York is that a living wage in New York is

something like a $100,000 a year, between 80 and 100?

So, you're still low income in New York,

-even if you're not low income in... -Right.

-...Kansas or whatever. -Relatively you're still low--

-Relative, right. -Yes.

So, if you're looking at these things, and you're saying,

"Well, I don't know how you're supposed to be able

"to pay these bills and blah, blah, blah,

but that woman's gonna be CEO, so maybe she'll fix it."

But, she's still paying her employees $15 an hour or less.

Did the woman in power help anyone

or did she just get some power?

So, feminism has to look at the women who have power

and also at the women who need to be able to survive,

because if we want all women to do better,

if we want a movement for all women,

we need to meet the needs of every woman

as best as we can.

(applause and cheering)

It's a powerful statement that makes sense,

which means... a lot of people are gonna hate it.

I loved it, though-- thank you so much for being on the show.

-Thank you. -A really wonderful book

that looks at feminism in a completely different way.

Hood Feminism is available now!

Mikki Kendall, everybody!