that I think is really unique.

Uh, you have often referred to yourself

as a Republican in exile,

you know, as somebody who said you're not happy

with where the Republican Party has gone,

you feel like it has become hyperpartisan,

people are afraid to stand up to the president.

State of the Union is always interesting

because the president says things that some people like,

some people don't like,

and there are moments when everybody stands.

So, as a Republican who's not a complete fan of Donald Trump,

what did you like from tonight?

I loved his shout-out

to the legitimate president of Venezuela, Juan Guaidó.

-Right. -He absolutely deserved it,

and by the way, Democrats applauded that moment.

They did. Nancy Pelosi stood up.

Everyone was happy in that moment.

That was a wonderful moment.

Uh, it was a wonderful moment

to see a family reunification--

a soldier plucked from Afghanistan

and reunited with his son and his daughter.

It was one that was quite emotional for me.

But I was also quite angered by it as well because this man--

I-I always think of John McCain, right,

the man who served five years

in a prison cell the size of this table,

who couldn't shake your hand

like a normal, regular handshake,

whose son was on the front lines in-in-in Iraq

when he was advocating for the surge strategy,

running for president,

-and he wouldn't even mention him. -Right.

This man, the president of the United States,

has never served a day in his life,

nor has anybody in his family,

and he is using the bravest and the most heroic among us

as props in his political campaign.

And so it was a mixed State of the Union.

It-it-it-it seems like Trump did a good job

of using people, though, as props.

I mean, some would argue most politicians do that.

Some would argue that's what the State of the Union is about.

But tonight seemed-- it seemed like he was really good

at going, "Hey, I know what you think about me,

"but I'm going to place these moments throughout the show

to present an image."

This is the star of The Apprentice.

This is the game show State of the Union.

There was a car for every special interest group

-in the conservative movement. -Right.

And, by the way, some of these ideas I like.

I like the idea that an African-American girl

from an inner-city neighborhood

gets to go to a school of her choice.

-Mm-hmm. -I'm for that, right?

But I am not for the way this president

carelessly flaunts this...

Every story, every car giveaway was a story about his greatness.

It wasn't about the greatness of the ideas or the people

or-or anything beyond his own next election,

and that is a departure from both Democrats and Republicans

-at State of the Unions in the past. -Many have said that.

Many have said the key difference between Trump

and previous presidents is:

State of the Union has normally been

about what the country has achieved

and what the vision for the country would be

from the eyes of the president.

Trump has gone, "Mine.

My economy, my administration, my military."

He has made it about him, and some would argue that's because

the Republican Party has now become his.

The party of Lincoln is acting like a subsidiary of Trump Inc.,

and that's what you saw tonight.

Wow, that's deep.

Let me ask you this, then, going forward.

Tonight was one of those nights where people are now going

to base their punditry about the president's performance

on a speech and on a moment.

How close do you think the speech was

to what Trump actually does?

'Cause, I mean, these-these are words,

and Trump is very good at reading on occasion.

He's gotten better over the last few years.

I've said this-- I give him his props.

His reading has gotten a lot better, right?

But-but when you watch that speech, how much of it

did you think, "Oh, no, this-this is not... this is not

completely what Trump is about. This is just words"?

Like, did you feel like he's about unifying the country?

Did you feel that he's about everybody moving forward?

Did you feel like that, or did you feel like it was pageantry?

I mean...

To a certain extent, all of these are pageantry, right?

He-he tipped his hat to people of color

and had more people of color in the gallery

-Yes. -than he does in his own cabinet. Okay?

-So there-there is a disparity -That's true.

-between the words and the-and the truth. Okay? -Right.

And there's... and all the fact checkers

were running on Twitter. I mean, you could have just gone dizzy

-Right. -watching all the fact checkers on Twitter.

So if you're asking how true is what he says,

I mean, I think we all know he has a problem with truth,

-he has a problem with veracity. -Yes.

There-there are a lot of half-truths which he'll use

to his own political advantage. I mean, he is gonna

try to nibble away at African-Americans

who don't vote for Republicans, and he might have

a degree of success with that. He might.

Let me ask you this. With Republicans who have

distanced themselves from Donald Trump but are in a place

where many say, "Look, I don't like Trump

"but I like his economic policies.

"I don't like Trump but there is no viable

alternative candidate"-- you speak to those Republicans,

you-you often speak for them in many ways.

When you look at Donald Trump, when you look at

the state of the u-union, when look at the future,

do you see a viable world where Republicans don't vote for him

or do you think it's-it's all gung ho for Donald Trump?

No, the party... the Republican party now is the pa...

is the party of Trump. And, by the way,

most Republicans don't like all the things I don't like,

but they do exactly what you just said.

The economy is strong, wages are down, unemploy...

-wages are up, unemployment is down. Uh... -Right. Right.

-Wages are up. -Some people's wages have... are stagnant,

-maybe, yes, but, yes, I hear what you're saying, -But-but...

-but... Right. -So there is this economic argument,

and there... all of these arguments, and even

Mayor Bloomberg says he's gonna be very difficult to run against

because some of the things that, you know, all of us

sort of reasonable folks who approach policy

-in a reasonable way -Right.

like some of the things that he's done.

I mean, that was Mayor Bloomberg. Right? -Right.

So... this is... this is not going to be a layup.

I mean, I-I do believe...

We don't know if there's any viable opponent. Right?

We've just gotten out of Iowa and we still don't know.

There is no opponent, actually. We don't even know

-if there is an opponent. Yes. -No opponent.

Um... but President Trump isn't trying to unify the country.

He's trying to divide and conquer,

and he has an ele... his winning strategy

is about winning the electoral college.

Remember he won by 78,000 votes in three states.

Hard to forget. But he's not trying to...

-he's not doing the second time of Reagan or Nixon, -Right.

he's not going for a 50-state strategy,

he's just going for 270.

And so... what's on all of us,

I think, is to recognize that we want the country to be better,

that we don't want our politics to be permanently damaged

by the tone and tenor of this presidency,

and that, unlike Nancy Pelosi ripping up the speech,

we want to try to do better, respect our politics

and hold our politics to a higher standard

so that we can return to a degree of normalcy and respect

-and humility in our politics. -Those are hopeful words,

but I don't think Trump will allow that.

Thank you so much for being on the show.

-Wonderful having you here. -(cheering, applause)

Firing Line airs nationally across PBS.

Margaret Hoover, everybody.